Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [30th Dec 2011 - 4th Jan 2012]

Yup, I said last year, first season, people aren't really sure who he is and potentially, Utd buying him they thought there was more to come. Every team must surely know playing offside against him is pretty easy and likewise Linesman and ref's know who Hernandez is now and well, if we can't help but assume he's always offside, why wouldn't they?

Benefit of the doubt when your main game is being offside but not getting caught, is huge, losing it, well...... he's got nothing else to fall back on seemingly.
 
I like Jones as a bombing forward big guy, he's good to watch, but I'm not sure he's even a marginally good CB. Utd haven't looked good with him at CB, he makes loads of errors, his positioning isn't great and his insistence on bombing forward leaves gaping holes.

I was ridiculed by friends a few weeks back when i mentioned Jones reminds me of a young Yaya Toure (Explaining that i could see him growing into the player Yaya is now at City, not that he's like Yaya from years past) I was told he was a centre back and that's that (maybe no so politely) I do think he's more suited as a box to box player.
 
Hernandez doesn't really get enough service from midfield, same old issues with Man Utd, I thought they could have brought a cm in a few years ago, and Ferguson has been like Wenger in regard to not properly sorting out glaring problems for long periods, which makes you wonder what the real reason is.

They really struggle to build from the back through the middle of the field, consequently they go out wide too early and are more predictable, Carrick is tidy but he sometimes hides from the responsibility of getting the ball from the CB's and as somebody said, doesn't seem comfortable enough to get past a man and play forwards when under pressure, meaning it's quite easy to negate him as an attacking threat
 
The real reason is the rest of the league is so crap there hasn't been the need to sort out problems. Real and barca have been in a spending peeing match for so long they've always kept improving even when they didn't have to.

In the premier league Utd had a team capable of winning the title, so why sell your crap and buy big and pay out more wages...... when you don't have to.

It really is as simple as that for Utd, they didn't need to improve, and didn't, and that is now coming back to bite them in the ass HARD. Arsenal have been getting worse for over 5 years and Chelsea never came close to putting together a squad on the scale/quality City have. Chelsea never really had more than two real strikers and most of the time one of them was woefully out of form and beyond the second striker the backup has been crap(or simply not played). There isn't any reason that with Chelsea's spending they shouldn't have ended up with 4 world class strikers like City did. They spent so much on cack midfielders they got rid of a year later, and moving on quality wingers to bring in worse ones and so much on expensive yet still unproven in the top league strikers.


Utd need shot of, Gibson, Fletcher, Anderson, Carrick, Evra, Rio, Macheda, Park, at the least. Utd fans generally won't agree but I think rooney at 250k a week is just laughable. he's not the best striker in the league, he's not the best midfielder, the best play maker, passer or, anything. 250k a week because he's in the England team(yet might not go to the Euro's) is laughable. That wage alone would pay for Ba, Cabye, Tiote with money to spare....... and be a MUCH better team for it. In fact, I'd put those three at MAYBE 150k a week together, the other 100k a week would almost in a single year have paid for two of their transfer's as well, that is how ridiculous 250k a week for him is.

I would say there are two teams who have genuinely improved over the past 3-4 years, City and Spurs, and look where they are.

Even teams with quality players get stale, run out of idea's and become predictable to the opposition.

Carrick when he joined a fresh and quality Utd squad wasn't an obvious weakness(though he was), he isn't any worse now, the team around him is worse so the team itself has less control and his lack of ability in that role is more apparent, nothing more or less. Teams now know they can run past him with little chance of him winning the ball off them, slow as hell and no real threat either.

I think Spurs are playing well, and have improved but not dramatically, the mere action of improving a bit rather than going miles backwards has pushed them beyond Arsenal/Pool and probably Utd as well now.

It really isn't difficult to see, Arsenal's midfield used to have Gilberto, Vieira, Edu, Fabregas, Pires, Reyes, Freddie in it, we now have Gervinho, who can't pass, shoot, or do much of anything, Theo who can't pass, shoot or do much of anything, Song, who compared to Gilberto simply isn't a footballer.

Fergie and Wenger have been WAY to easy on up and coming players and when they failed to come up to a high enough level, rather than cutting them and trying again.......... just stuck with it, again because it was easy and for years Champs league qualification was easy.
 
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I've forgotten which players you hate, is Song one? he's been pretty good this season

I still find it incredible people think that, he started off by playing cack and getting sent off leaving us a run of tough games.

Last season Wilshire played as DM to cover for Song, that is our most promising Cesc replacement as a DM because Song is "so very very good". this year we bought another attacking creative midfielder........... who is playing as a DM......... because Song has been so good.

Guess what when one or even two players cover Song's position all game it helps Song out no end, it still isn't Song being good. Thing is, because we had fabregas/Nasri/anyone covering for him, then Wilshire, now Arteta....... Song gets forwards more, is he great going forwards.......nope. So why is he in the team, no idea. If we bought an actual DM then we could play our great central midfield attackers...... in their best roles and maybe start to look like a real team.

Song, daft tackles, cynical fouls, puts a foot in for no reason to give away fouls in ridiculously dangerous positions...... offers nothing going forwards, we have to have one or two players cover him defensively and we still don't look very good.

Actually for any one that thinks Song is a good DM, look at Tiote and HONESTLY compare there games.

Let's list what Tiote get's right. Strength, he can hold off three players, turn into space and pass to start an attack, and he does it quickly, tackling, incredibly high quality tackler, holding off players without fouling them all the time. Positioning, closing at the right time, winning tackles and coming away with the ball, composure on the ball, not doing something stupid every 5 seconds. But really one of the most important things is when you get the ball, either winning it or a team mate passing it, he'll move into space, he'll do it quickly or he'll pass to someone who can go forwards.

Song, every single time he goes in for a tackle I expect him to foul, he consistently does the wrong thing, when he gets the ball he's very slow to decide what to do and usually it ends up being passing backwards, or sideways or giving it away. Tiote is a great DM, Song isn't half the player Tiote is, of course, switch from Denilson to Song and he looks like the second coming...... Do Newcastle sacrifice Cabaye just cover Tiote's arse and drop a striker to fit another central midfielder in for the same reasoning........ no.
 
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Let's list what Tiote get's right. Strength, he can hold off three players, turn into space and pass to start an attack, and he does it quickly, tackling, incredibly high quality tackler, holding off players without fouling them all the time. Positioning, closing at the right time, winning tackles and coming away with the ball, composure on the ball, not doing something stupid every 5 seconds. But really one of the most important things is when you get the ball, either winning it or a team mate passing it, he'll move into space, he'll do it quickly or he'll pass to someone who can go forwards.

Hard to believe Tiote was a bit part player in McClaren FC Twente league wining team. Only really was use in the second half to secure the win.

He looked nothing but outstanding since his first game at Newcastle

I heard when Graham Carr was scouting him Steve told him to sign him without hesitation.

What do you think of Santon last night? Seems a very good player after getting a run of games. His positioning seemed very good. Him being Italian helps :D
 
The real reason is the rest of the league is so crap there hasn't been the need to sort out problems. Real and barca have been in a spending peeing match for so long they've always kept improving even when they didn't have to.

In the premier league Utd had a team capable of winning the title, so why sell your crap and buy big and pay out more wages...... when you don't have to.

It really is as simple as that for Utd, they didn't need to improve, and didn't, and that is now coming back to bite them in the ass HARD. Arsenal have been getting worse for over 5 years and Chelsea never came close to putting together a squad on the scale/quality City have. Chelsea never really had more than two real strikers and most of the time one of them was woefully out of form and beyond the second striker the backup has been crap(or simply not played). There isn't any reason that with Chelsea's spending they shouldn't have ended up with 4 world class strikers like City did. They spent so much on cack midfielders they got rid of a year later, and moving on quality wingers to bring in worse ones and so much on expensive yet still unproven in the top league strikers.


Utd need shot of, Gibson, Fletcher, Anderson, Carrick, Evra, Rio, Macheda, Park, at the least. Utd fans generally won't agree but I think rooney at 250k a week is just laughable. he's not the best striker in the league, he's not the best midfielder, the best play maker, passer or, anything. 250k a week because he's in the England team(yet might not go to the Euro's) is laughable. That wage alone would pay for Ba, Cabye, Tiote with money to spare....... and be a MUCH better team for it. In fact, I'd put those three at MAYBE 150k a week together, the other 100k a week would almost in a single year have paid for two of their transfer's as well, that is how ridiculous 250k a week for him is.

I would say there are two teams who have genuinely improved over the past 3-4 years, City and Spurs, and look where they are.

Even teams with quality players get stale, run out of idea's and become predictable to the opposition.

Carrick when he joined a fresh and quality Utd squad wasn't an obvious weakness(though he was), he isn't any worse now, the team around him is worse so the team itself has less control and his lack of ability in that role is more apparent, nothing more or less. Teams now know they can run past him with little chance of him winning the ball off them, slow as hell and no real threat either.

I think Spurs are playing well, and have improved but not dramatically, the mere action of improving a bit rather than going miles backwards has pushed them beyond Arsenal/Pool and probably Utd as well now.

It really isn't difficult to see, Arsenal's midfield used to have Gilberto, Vieira, Edu, Fabregas, Pires, Reyes, Freddie in it, we now have Gervinho, who can't pass, shoot, or do much of anything, Theo who can't pass, shoot or do much of anything, Song, who compared to Gilberto simply isn't a footballer.

Fergie and Wenger have been WAY to easy on up and coming players and when they failed to come up to a high enough level, rather than cutting them and trying again.......... just stuck with it, again because it was easy and for years Champs league qualification was easy.


Mate thats what i am trying to tell everyone here. Because of Wengers past success people think he has a god given right to **** about for over 5 years.

Wenger needs to be sacked mate. he nver learns and Fergie is following Wengers footsteps it seems by going backwards. if fergies doesnt address the shambolic side he has that are on paper no better then Arsenals useless jabroni's, then he too will make united go trophyless for x amount of years in a row like almighty Wenger.
 
Man utd getting outclassed from barcelona has made them worse. Fergie in on a quest to rebuild to compete with them, by buying ashley young phil jones isnt doing it. Their midfield is weak, its not 1999 ryan giggs wont do it

This season is definitely showing the complacent a real lesson.
 
Man utd getting outclassed from barcelona has made them worse. Fergie in on a quest to rebuild to compete with them, by buying ashley young phil jones isnt doing it. Their midfield is weak, its not 1999 ryan giggs wont do it

This season is definitely showing the complacent a real lesson.

exactly. he should have bought schneijder
 
Please dont get tiote or cabaye. I cant believe we have actually got some players that are quality and for next to nothing.

Our defensive play is finally not a joke, we have the next van der sar lol and in ba we have struck gold.

Maybe the wings isnt so strong but jonas is tireless, obertan is iffy sometimes, we deinitely need another striker and maybe another winger
 
It is not all that bad for man Utd. There is still real quality in that team. Centre midfield needs a remedy (probably jones as a dm) and smalling needs to start taking over from Rio in centre defence.

Once fergie has decided on a first team it will improve. Man Utd will need a few more seasons to learn how to press like Barcelona but with a signing or two they will learn how to beat them. Fergie is a consistent winner this period of fear happens every year and it goes away come May or the following May.
 
Ok Ive slept on it

WTF happened last night!

Newcastle helping out spurs :D

Superb stuff,

It annoys me when people say what a disaster D3, L3 is at this stage. Most Spurs fans will be delighted with th same statistics (bar the GD) this season thus far. The expectancy is so much different. In the past, Man Utd have been given too much respect and teams tend to sit deep but no team has a right to win any game. Their complacency may be their achilles heel.
 
Hard to believe Tiote was a bit part player in McClaren FC Twente league wining team. Only really was use in the second half to secure the win.

He looked nothing but outstanding since his first game at Newcastle

I heard when Graham Carr was scouting him Steve told him to sign him without hesitation.

What do you think of Santon last night? Seems a very good player after getting a run of games. His positioning seemed very good. Him being Italian helps :D

Not sure, there is something about him, i don't know, maybe he seems way to slow for a bombing forward and making it back in time kind of player. I'm not convinced and considering his lack of game time, even when playing Ryan Taylor there instead who was pretty damn awful and was a huge culprit for so many of the goals in the run of recent not particularly great results suggests the manager wasn't seeing much. Maybe its just match fitness, I really don't know.

It's hard to judge last night, take nothing away from Newcastle at all, most of the guys who got on the ball a lot were truly excellent, but I thought Nani/valencia looked particularly poor, and it's hard to tell how much of that was Santon how much was Guti and how much was themselves....... well and how much was Rooney getting the ball and failing to make a single decent pass to anyone at all :p

I remember Baz saying recently how pretty Liverpool were sitting as they how have an easier time than any other team, as in played more of the harder games than anyone else, but by my count Newcastle have played even more tough games than liverpool, more away games to the big teams and even nicked a few points in the past 8 games when most seasons that run of games might have been 7-8 losses on the bounce, and then won 3 more points last night that they absolutely deserved. Now one point behind Liverpool with for me less big games, even with Ba/Tiote unavailable they are in a very strong position to push on. Liverpool have their own player out for a decent amount of games. Can only really hope as a Newcastle fan that Ba/tiote's do utter crap at the ACN and come back as early as possible ;)
 
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