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United did play well but the scoring situation still seems rubbish.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [5 - 6th October 2013]
- Thread starter Robbo
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You think?
I only watched up to their first goal but they kept letting Sunderland in, and looked pretty toothless. Sunlund were first to every ball.
We were poor until we got the equaliser, then we improved considerably (but still weren't great).
On the Kagawa situation, he may well be the best player in Germany two years running and Dortmuns main man while they were playing some decent football but I'm yet to see any consistency from that in the PL.
Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking him and I want him to come good, but when he has been in the team (apart from the Norwich game) I've not seen anything that's has made me go Wow, he's a star for us.
I don't think the system we play is helping him at all, for Dortmund he played behind Lewandovski, for Japan he plays on the left as more of a wide midfielder, similar to how City play Nasri and Silva, they come in off the wings and play through the middle, you rarely see Silva/Mata/Nasri/Hazard flying down the wings and bombing crosses in.
We obviously play with wingers and always have done, at United he's expected to give us width but he's not that type of player to get chalk on his boots and beat the full back at every opportunity.
I can see why Moyes and Fergie last season struggled to fit him in, I'm fearing it's a case of round peg, square hole. I hope I'm wrong because I really want to see him play well for us. The days of flying wingers and banging crosses in are over at the top level imo, it was evident today, the amount of crosses we were throwing into the box was daft, they have obviously been told to stop ****ing about and to get it in early if possible.
Like I say I hope I'm wrong and he comes good but I struggle to think of games where he has stood out, that may be down to the lack of playing time but if he is impressing in training then you would like to think he would be starting.
I'm starting to think that DM was right and Kagawa and Wilf have tag teamed Moyes' daughter.
Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking him and I want him to come good, but when he has been in the team (apart from the Norwich game) I've not seen anything that's has made me go Wow, he's a star for us.
I don't think the system we play is helping him at all, for Dortmund he played behind Lewandovski, for Japan he plays on the left as more of a wide midfielder, similar to how City play Nasri and Silva, they come in off the wings and play through the middle, you rarely see Silva/Mata/Nasri/Hazard flying down the wings and bombing crosses in.
We obviously play with wingers and always have done, at United he's expected to give us width but he's not that type of player to get chalk on his boots and beat the full back at every opportunity.
I can see why Moyes and Fergie last season struggled to fit him in, I'm fearing it's a case of round peg, square hole. I hope I'm wrong because I really want to see him play well for us. The days of flying wingers and banging crosses in are over at the top level imo, it was evident today, the amount of crosses we were throwing into the box was daft, they have obviously been told to stop ****ing about and to get it in early if possible.
Like I say I hope I'm wrong and he comes good but I struggle to think of games where he has stood out, that may be down to the lack of playing time but if he is impressing in training then you would like to think he would be starting.
I'm starting to think that DM was right and Kagawa and Wilf have tag teamed Moyes' daughter.
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Another great insight, are you going to tell us they play in red as well?
I thought we played well after the first 20-25 when Sunderland threw everything at us, like Pigeon said earlier in the thread, they run out of steam and are there for the taking then.
Di Canio has put them back half a season imo, they seem to have lost their fitness levels.
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United don't look dangerous anymore when they have the ball. Sure there are exceptions but the majority of the time...meh.
It's unlike them. Especially considering the first 11 hasn't changed dramatically over the past 2-3 seasons.
It's unlike them. Especially considering the first 11 hasn't changed dramatically over the past 2-3 seasons.
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I thought Silva was more central but drifts? Is he actually more a winger?
He has often played out wide but his focus is to drift inside. He can pretty much play anywhere up there. Plenty of teams play "wingers" in the winger position but not many of them focus on beating a man and crossing it, they all cut inside (for the good teams).
Not at all, that's my point.
When they put the formation graphics up on Sky etc, they have them in the orthodox left wing position but they're not wingers who get chalk on their boots, they drift in constantly to act as an outlet for the CM's.
That's they type of player Kagawa is and Adnan Jzjzjzjjzzjjay.
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Makes sense.
A winger with 2 good feet is better than a winger that always goes the same way...Valencia (IMO) always seems to go to one side and it's too predictable.
To be honest, City's squad depth is insane.
Exactly and where we're going wrong imo is that we are still using out and out wingers like Nani/Young/Valencia who are needed in certain games to provide width but the game has moved on now and we need to move with it.
To at least have the option to change if needed is what I want but it looks as though Fergie and Moyes want Kagawa to be running the line and providing crosses, which is not his game.
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I'm still so baffled about this Kagawa thing...how much did United pay? 17m or so?
Jacuzzi seems confident for an 18/19 year old..he is providing United with a breathe of fresh air that they really need right now.
I think Nani can offer something different to a regular winger at least, but he's nothing like a David Silva type of player.
He did plenty of wasteful things today but at least he does do something positive, the rest are just... :/
He frustrates me more than anyone becasue we know he can do it, he just doesn't do it often enough nowadays. He's not been right since the Carragher tackle.
I agree though he's an option that is something different if needed, that's my point, I want us to be able to play different formations, a tight midfield with Kagawa/Januzaj drifting or flying wingers like the Kanchelskis/Giggs days.
We had it with Beckham years ago who played on the right but wasn't about flying down and crossing at the by line, it also used to leave us lop sided sometimes with Giggs the only width. I want us to be able to match up to teams who play narrow through the middle, teams like City/Barca/Chelsea etc we don't match up to and we get overrun.
We need to be able to switch formation/roles with the players we have.
Agree with all of that. We definitely need to look at buying some new players though, Young and Anderson for example aren't going to work for us, and will still have some value hopefully. No reason we shouldn't be looking to spend the best part of £100m if required to get a few new faces in, come January or the summer. I'd like Herrera based on his potential and what I've seen and read, but I wouldn't call myself an expert on him at all.
I think efforts should be made to fit in Kagawa if we can do it, I'm sure if handled properly and given the correct role and time in the team he can be as good as he was at Dortmund.
Another worry is that aside from the very average performance today, their only goal came from a defensive mistake by Vidic (and to a lesser extent Jones), that needs sorting. Was Rio last time.
I think efforts should be made to fit in Kagawa if we can do it, I'm sure if handled properly and given the correct role and time in the team he can be as good as he was at Dortmund.
Another worry is that aside from the very average performance today, their only goal came from a defensive mistake by Vidic (and to a lesser extent Jones), that needs sorting. Was Rio last time.
The problem is as well is that we can't just shoehorn Kagawa into his favoured position, Rooney is undropable at the moment and we not what problems that causes anyway.
I would be tempted at the moment to rest RvP in the 'easier' games and play Kagawa off Rooney but Moyes is far too green to try that just yet.
I would be tempted at the moment to rest RvP in the 'easier' games and play Kagawa off Rooney but Moyes is far too green to try that just yet.