Greta Thunberg

When Global Warming became a political "thing" I saw an article that showed a graph of Sun spot activity that correlated almost exactly with rising temps on Earth - this has never been mentioned again - presumably because it isnt "on message" ?

That single graph was far more compelling an arguement to me than anything I have seen from the likes of Greta and her mates. I imagine if you are in Govt however it must be hugely tempting to stick a climate change tax on anything that moves.
 
Mint8 said:
When Global Warming became a political "thing" I saw an article that showed a graph of Sun spot activity that correlated almost exactly with rising temps on Earth - this has never been mentioned again - presumably because it isnt "on message" ?
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You once saw one article with one graph and that's enough to complete dismiss everything that doesn't fit the graph? You haven't even cited the evidence behind the graph. Did you ever look at the evidence behind the graph?

The sun spot cycle is far too short to be relevant to climate change. It's about a 10 year cycle. It's been observed for a couple of centuries. It's not the cause. There are known longer term variations not related to sunspots, but they don't work as the cause either because the current rate of change is too high. Modern human civilisation obviously does affect the global environment. It would be silly to pretend that modern human civilisation has no effect at all despite its massive pollution and changes in environments.

That single graph was far more compelling an arguement to me than anything I have seen from the likes of Greta and her mates. I imagine if you are in Govt however it must be hugely tempting to stick a climate change tax on anything that moves.
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Taxation isn't the cause either, obviously.

To some extent the cause doesn't matter. We need to manage the effects regardless of the cause. Our civilisation is too fragile to handle much in the way of climate change, whatever the cause.
 
Angilion said:
The sun spot cycle is far too short to be relevant to climate change. It's about a 10 year cycle. It's been observed for a couple of centuries. It's not the cause. There are known longer term variations not related to sunspots, but they don't work as the cause either because the current rate of change is too high. Modern human civilisation obviously does affect the global environment. It would be silly to pretend that modern human civilisation has no effect at all despite its massive pollution and changes in environments..
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lol ...you mean that big ball of plasma .. has little effect on the planet ? the current rate of change ? the suns cycle is 1000 yrs give or take it has a maximum and a minimum we have just been thru a maximum .. which is 40-50 yrs ? we are now entering it's minimum .. again 40-50 yrs ..
so that big ball of plasma has been on gas mark 9 for 40 odd yrs and it didn't do anything to the planet ?the oceans didn't soak up all that heat .. the planet didn't get hotter ... the last 4 maximums thats up to 4000 yrs ago where all hotter than this one .. less people no pollution plz explain how we made it happen ?
now that we are cooling we are seeing temp swings from hot to cold records broken on both sides .. as we progress over the next 50 yrs .. it will go cold just cold .. growing regions will move people will starve ..

oh and the sun has been observed for thousands of yrs .
 
flea.rider said:
lol ...you mean that big ball of plasma .. has little effect on the planet ? the current rate of change ? the suns cycle is 1000 yrs give or take it has a maximum and a minimum we have just been thru a maximum .. which is 40-50 yrs ? we are now entering it's minimum .. again 40-50 yrs ..
so that big ball of plasma has been on gas mark 9 for 40 odd yrs and it didn't do anything to the planet ?the oceans didn't soak up all that heat .. the planet didn't get hotter ... the last 4 maximums thats up to 4000 yrs ago where all hotter than this one .. less people no pollution plz explain how we made it happen ?
now that we are cooling we are seeing temp swings from hot to cold records broken on both sides .. as we progress over the next 50 yrs .. it will go cold just cold .. growing regions will move people will starve ..

oh and the sun has been observed for thousands of yrs .
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You're going to need to link to your sources where you get your information from about the sun being on a 1000 yr cycle and just coming out of a 40-50 yr maximum. As the sun does have lots of cycles but the main one referred to is the avg 11 yr one (the Schwabe cycle) and we are just through the latest solar minimum going into a solar maximum over the next 4-5 years.

https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-cycle

solar cycle, period of about 11 years in which fluctuations in the number and size of sunspots and solar prominences are repeated.
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Solar cycle 25 began in 2019 and will reach maximum in 2025, but that maximum is predicted to be weak, like that of solar cycle 24, which had only half the number of sunspots seen in solar cycle 23. This decrease in the number of sunspots has led some solar physicists to conclude that the Sun may be in a period of inactivity like the Dalton minimum.
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So the Sun has been, and is still expected to continue to be, in a quite weak cycle for the last and next decade.

Though from what I was reading recently the activity coming out of this latest minimum has been more energetic than usual, with some considerably large flares going off, so the predictions of the weak cycle going forward may not be correct.
 
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So each sunspot cylce has a maximum and a minimum and the general trend of the cycles has a pattern. Events like the Muander and Dalton Mimumum are believed to be related to relatively cold periods. But the mechanism, and several have been suggested, is far from confirmed. The sunspot cycles have been very high in the preceding decades until the noughties when they have shown a marked reduction. The current sunspot cycle is one of the weakest in the last 100 years or so. I guess because we don't understand if there is a cause and effect this has no predicitve value for us.
The politicisation of thermogeddon does leave one with the feeling that any other possible mechanisms that might be overlaid on CO2 increase are dismissed out of hand unless they support the narrative. Which is part of what worries me about the cultish group think of the hair shirt brigade.
 
Freakbro said:
You're going to need to link to your sources where you get your information from about the sun being on a 1000 yr cycle and just coming out of a 40-50 yr maximum. As the sun does have lots of cycles but the main one referred to is the avg 11 yr one (the Schwabe cycle) and we are just through the latest solar minimum going into a solar maximum over the next 4-5 years.

https://www.britannica.com/science/solar-cycle

So the Sun has been, and is still expected to continue to be, in a quite weak cycle for the last and next decade.

Though from what I was reading recently the activity coming out of this latest minimum has been more energetic than usual, with some considerably large flares going off, so the predictions of the weak cycle going forward may not be correct.
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you have the 10.5-13 yr cycle the sun go's thru .. cycle 1-24 which peaks around the 5th to 7 yr then you have a 400 +/- yr cycle think maunders min dalton min .. what we are heading into .. a 1k cycle like the 400 but worst .. and a 12k cycle this is the worst .. think micro nova population extinction .
i'll let you do some of the leg work ..
Study: Modern Grand Solar Minimum (2020 - 2053) leads to cooling, important implications for entire planet (watchers.news)
 
GIBURROWS said:
Global warming is natural that's why the ice age happened, its very alarmist and fashionable to say climate change is a man made thing.
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This. It has always been called global warming. People reading this thread also need to look up the "Goldilocks zone". This is where the sun is at a certain size that conditions can sustain life on planet Earth. However, over thousands of years, the sun is gradually getting bigger. The bigger the sun is, the further out the Goldilocks zone will be. It will eventually get to a point where it is too hot to sustain life on Earth, but conditions will be just "right" for the next further out planet, which is Mars.

P.S. @4K8KW10 and Greta should get a room :p
 
flea.rider said:
lol ...you mean that big ball of plasma .. has little effect on the planet ? [..]
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If I had meant that, I would have written that. I wrote something completely different because I meant something completely different.

lol...you mean that invisible magic pixies...hold up aeroplanes and that's how they fly?

It's easy to make up nonsense, pretend someone wrote it and dismiss the nonsense you made up. But it's not a reasonable counter-argument to anything they actually wrote. At best, it's a silly fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

But you didn't even try to make even a vaguely convincing stab at it. Your strawman is just a shapeless bundle.
 
Pawnless Endgame said:
This. It has always been called global warming. People reading this thread also need to look up the "Goldilocks zone". This is where the sun is at a certain size that conditions can sustain life on planet Earth. However, over thousands of years, the sun is gradually getting bigger. The bigger the sun is, the further out the Goldilocks zone will be. It will eventually get to a point where it is too hot to sustain life on Earth, but conditions will be just "right" for the next further out planet, which is Mars. [..]
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Changes in Sol will make Earth too hot to sustain life in about a billion years. "thousands of years" is pretty much no time at all to a star of Sol's type while on its main sequence. Sol will get much bigger as it gets closer to the end of its main sequence, when it will briefly (in astronomical terms) be a red giant. But that's even further into the future. And conditions won't be just right for Mars then either. Nor would it matter if Mars was in a Goldilocks zone because it would still be deadly to all life because it still wouldn't have a magnetosphere.
 
Things are getting worse:

"Altafjord is a wide expanse of black water on the edge of the Barents Sea, ringed with mountains. Alta is a relatively large town in the Finnmark province, the crown of the horse’s mane that forms Norway’s jagged coastline and Europe’s northern shore. Here at sea level the most northerly trees in Europe are moving upslope, gobbling up the tundra as they go. The people and animals that live here are trying to make sense of the rapid changes with a mixture of confusion, denial and panic."

"As the planet warms, the Arctic treeline is accelerating towards the pole, turning the white landscape to green. The trees used to creep forward a few centimetres every year; now they are leaping north at a rate of 40 to 50 metres a year. In the European Arctic, the birch is the leader of the pack."
‘The treeline is out of control’: how the climate crisis is turning the Arctic green | Climate crisis | The Guardian



greta thunberg news - Google Search
 
builder22 said:
was 8 degrees at midnight here in central Scotland last night...January
The end is nigh!!
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Was it raining? We're still OK until it stops raining in Scotland :)

There's a fun little racing game on Steam for a few quid. It's a racing game set in a Scottish city. The only weather is heavy rain, all the time, every day and every night. The dev obviously made it for a bit of a laugh about their own home city, but it's a surprisingly good game for a few quid. Rainy Day Racer. I got a few hours fun trying to improve my lap times in a knackered Transit van.
 
4K8KW10 said:
Things are getting worse:

"Altafjord is a wide expanse of black water on the edge of the Barents Sea, ringed with mountains. Alta is a relatively large town in the Finnmark province, the crown of the horse’s mane that forms Norway’s jagged coastline and Europe’s northern shore. Here at sea level the most northerly trees in Europe are moving upslope, gobbling up the tundra as they go. The people and animals that live here are trying to make sense of the rapid changes with a mixture of confusion, denial and panic."

"As the planet warms, the Arctic treeline is accelerating towards the pole, turning the white landscape to green. The trees used to creep forward a few centimetres every year; now they are leaping north at a rate of 40 to 50 metres a year. In the European Arctic, the birch is the leader of the pack."
‘The treeline is out of control’: how the climate crisis is turning the Arctic green | Climate crisis | The Guardian



greta thunberg news - Google Search
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You were advocating we all plant trees to mitigate our carbon footprints a bit ago, now you're bloody whining that there are more trees naturally occurring.

You still haven't told me how many trees YOU have planted to mitigate that bleedin' power hungry PC you show off about in your sig' .... :)
 
Angilion said:
Was it raining? We're still OK until it stops raining in Scotland :)

There's a fun little racing game on Steam for a few quid. It's a racing game set in a Scottish city. The only weather is heavy rain, all the time, every day and every night. The dev obviously made it for a bit of a laugh about their own home city, but it's a surprisingly good game for a few quid. Rainy Day Racer. I got a few hours fun trying to improve my lap times in a knackered Transit van.
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must have been Glasgow/West :D
 
Milankovitch Cycles are widely considered to determine glacial and inter-glacial periods. It is all down to our distance from, and the shape of our orbit around, the sun, and our orientation relative to it. NASA explains all here.
 
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