Guild Wars 2
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Caporegime
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PUG, what does that mean?
Not sure of the wording but in CSS whenever i played with a bunch of random people from various teams it is called a mix, and a pug is the word americans in counter strike use instead of mix.
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PUG = pick up group. generally means advertising in global chat channels (or by other means) for people to group with to complete quests, instances, raids etc. can be really, really bad - or good, depending on who you get 
I only ever played on Euro servers in my WoW playing years an PUG was used commonly for pick up groups, where ya just make a team from the chat channel with randoms.
Yeah, this. And I'm British for the record.
Surprising as it may be, I found that the majority of PUGs I played with in Guild Wars were at least competent. Obviously you'd get the occasional bunch of knobcheeses, but they usually make it pretty clear within the first few minutes so you can get out and find another without wasting too much time.
Heroes turned GW into a single player game, which is not what I buy MMORPGs for.
LOL pugs in GW1 
The god awful memories.
No it actually didnt, Guild Wars had a single player option from the start with henchmen, but Alesia was a retard, Lina would start casting a 0 attribute 6s cast Renew Life mid battle leaving everyone to die, and all the Warrior henchmen had Charge. In prophecies the AI option was simply worse than the worst Pugs.
Since Factions, which had some fairly decent henchmen, GW became a fully single player game for most people. Heroes didnt affect this, the multiplayer aspect to PVE was already long dead before Nightfall was even released, and the only way to keep people interested in playing the game was to improve the single player aspect.
GW multiplayer cant be compared to other MMOs. In DDO, everysingle pug group I joined was competent and decent enough to complete the content without any difficulty. There were hardly any players that were terrible at that game. On the other hand, in GW it simply seemed that 99.9% of the PVE pug community had some kind of special needs with the absolute dire builds they would pick to run.
Pugs destroyed themselves and the game, heroes saved it. If most people were any good at the game, at least better than the AI which isnt too much to ask for, multiplayer PVE wouldnt have died.
GW2 will be a huge improvement because half of every players skill bar will be fixed with decent stuff, and everyone will have a dedicated heal skill and the ability to res. No more noobing around all the time with a defy pain, endure pain, mending, healing breeze, frenzy + heal sig Warrior.
I remember during prophecies, I finished the whole game in starter armour and 2 superior runes and spamming flare. I was proof of why pugs were simply bad
The god awful memories.
No it actually didnt, Guild Wars had a single player option from the start with henchmen, but Alesia was a retard, Lina would start casting a 0 attribute 6s cast Renew Life mid battle leaving everyone to die, and all the Warrior henchmen had Charge. In prophecies the AI option was simply worse than the worst Pugs.
Since Factions, which had some fairly decent henchmen, GW became a fully single player game for most people. Heroes didnt affect this, the multiplayer aspect to PVE was already long dead before Nightfall was even released, and the only way to keep people interested in playing the game was to improve the single player aspect.
GW multiplayer cant be compared to other MMOs. In DDO, everysingle pug group I joined was competent and decent enough to complete the content without any difficulty. There were hardly any players that were terrible at that game. On the other hand, in GW it simply seemed that 99.9% of the PVE pug community had some kind of special needs with the absolute dire builds they would pick to run.
Pugs destroyed themselves and the game, heroes saved it. If most people were any good at the game, at least better than the AI which isnt too much to ask for, multiplayer PVE wouldnt have died.
GW2 will be a huge improvement because half of every players skill bar will be fixed with decent stuff, and everyone will have a dedicated heal skill and the ability to res. No more noobing around all the time with a defy pain, endure pain, mending, healing breeze, frenzy + heal sig Warrior.
I remember during prophecies, I finished the whole game in starter armour and 2 superior runes and spamming flare. I was proof of why pugs were simply bad
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Soldato
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Bad PUGs still make me laugh. I enjoy a Zaishen mission blast once in a while.
Gimme a call if I'm online (Iron Monkay).
Er...that's precisely my point. Since henchmen were useless, people played in groups.
It's as if we played two different games. I can't put it any clearer than this; before Heroes, loads of PUGs. After Heroes, barely any.
Heroes werent the only reason for that though - after all 3 campaigns were released, and also the expansion, most outposts were simply dead with no one in them to group up with. Players were spread out too much, and the only busy places were the trade spam hubs - LA, Kaineng and Kamadan.
The reason for the fall of pugs was due to their incompetence - if the only way to make people group together was by leaving the AI option completely retarded and useless, the player base for GW would have dropped by around 80%.
The 20% that enjoy pugging would have stayed, the rest that hated it would no longer be playing, so you still wouldnt have had more pug options available.
The reason for the fall of pugs was due to their incompetence - if the only way to make people group together was by leaving the AI option completely retarded and useless, the player base for GW would have dropped by around 80%.
The 20% that enjoy pugging would have stayed, the rest that hated it would no longer be playing, so you still wouldnt have had more pug options available.
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+1.
GW was far more enjoyable grouping with people. please get rid of heroes. they have turned GW into a Skyrim game aka a single player game.
GW2 will have no heroes. Honestly GW1 has reached the end of its life. Thats why they released 7 hero parties. Just so you can farm those HoM points and finish the game. Which would be impossible with the empty servers otherwise.
Time to move on. GW2 here we go.
Time to move on. GW2 here we go.
Caporegime
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exactly. well said
GW2 wont have any heroes, but you still wont need to pug to complete the game. It will be like almost every other MMORPG out there - all the main world content will be played solo, and grouping will only happen for end game stuff.
GW was always 100% crap when grouping with people, fan forums were always flooded with requests to improve hechmen or allow them to be customisable, thats why they added them.
Heroes werent added at the end of GWs lifecycle, nor did HOM have anything to do with them, they were introduced at the start of NF, while the game still had a lot of lifespan left and Eotn and HoM were still over a year away.
7 hero parties came after several overwhelming community polls showing over 80% of players wanting full hero parties. Most players simply enjoyed being able to customize and run the builds they wanted, rather than having to put up with players either unwilling or unable to change their skillbars.
GW was always 100% crap when grouping with people, fan forums were always flooded with requests to improve hechmen or allow them to be customisable, thats why they added them.
Heroes werent added at the end of GWs lifecycle, nor did HOM have anything to do with them, they were introduced at the start of NF, while the game still had a lot of lifespan left and Eotn and HoM were still over a year away.
7 hero parties came after several overwhelming community polls showing over 80% of players wanting full hero parties. Most players simply enjoyed being able to customize and run the builds they wanted, rather than having to put up with players either unwilling or unable to change their skillbars.
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Always two sides to the coin to Heroes, before they were in you had to group with idiots, heroes gave options to do it without grouping. People simply choose not to group because of randomness of grouping it wasn't taken away, people who wanted to group still could, I'm not a fan of taking away choices away from people.
However later on people started making meta heroes builds that destroyed areas so at that point there was no point grouping anyway. I can't remember how many bad pubs I'd been in, grouping with people of choice and heroes for the rest was awesome.
It looks like the same idea for GW2 too, you can solo or group if you want to, your not forced into groups or anything, the way it should be imo.
However later on people started making meta heroes builds that destroyed areas so at that point there was no point grouping anyway. I can't remember how many bad pubs I'd been in, grouping with people of choice and heroes for the rest was awesome.
It looks like the same idea for GW2 too, you can solo or group if you want to, your not forced into groups or anything, the way it should be imo.
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Its not so much an issue of being forced into grouping, as I already mentioned DDO forces grouping for just about all of its content, but every second of playing in a group is fun, rewarding and a great possitive experience in that game.
Grouping in GW1 however was always about as enjoyable as having to clean up horse manure. I dont believe that anyone honestly enjoys it unless they are the people that are unable to play the game without being carried through it by other players.
Meta hero builds are never as powerful as full player speed clear builds, but the latter mostly relies on Shadow Form sins, although the DoA speed clear build with DWG was rather fun. But then again its a case of everyone using the exact same skills being kept alive with an imbagon and consumables, far more broken than any hero meta build.
Grouping in GW1 however was always about as enjoyable as having to clean up horse manure. I dont believe that anyone honestly enjoys it unless they are the people that are unable to play the game without being carried through it by other players.
Meta hero builds are never as powerful as full player speed clear builds, but the latter mostly relies on Shadow Form sins, although the DoA speed clear build with DWG was rather fun. But then again its a case of everyone using the exact same skills being kept alive with an imbagon and consumables, far more broken than any hero meta build.
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In your opinion
Personally, and going only by how it was at the beginning when it was well populated (before any of the expansions) and easy to just jump in and out of groups.....i absolutely loved it, especially when some of my RL mates were playing it with me.
Though i can see what you're saying, at times it was a bore if you repeatedly got awful groups and there were always the odd people that did sweet FA in the missions hoping everyone else would get them through.