Gun crime in the UK - law and controls

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 16:59

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
And STILL useless without ammunition!

Are you suggesting that criminals are not going to have access to ammunition?

Avenged7Fold · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:01

It will be cheaper but it will never be of the quality to print out functional weaponry to withstand the forces it goes through under use.

jpod said:
Are you suggesting that criminals are not going to have access to ammunition?

Are you suggesting that these criminals have easier access to 3d printers and bullets (as well as the technical knowledge to calibrate and operate) than they do to guns and bullets?

Terminal_Boy · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:01

jpod said:
Are you suggesting that criminals are not going to have access to ammunition?

In the UK ammunition and the components required to make your own are as, if not more tightly controlled than firearms.

Ammunition cannot be 3D printed.

ttaskmaster · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:05

jpod said:
I need to know more about the UK law on guns, that is what I am researching next.

Then why not ask a firearms officer or a crime statistics collator or a solicitor or someone of that ilk, rather than here on a PC overclocking forum?

I'd love a P90 as much as the next man, but I'd not ask where to get one here, for example... and I kinda want one a little bit less, now.

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:07

Avenged7Fold said:
It will be cheaper but it will never be of the quality to print out functional weaponry to withstand the forces it goes through under use.

Are you suggesting that these criminals have easier access to 3d printers and bullets (as well as the technical knowledge to calibrate and operate) than they do to guns and bullets?

I don't know but it is interesting perspective.

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:10

ttaskmaster said:
Then why not ask a firearms officer or a crime statistics collator or a solicitor or someone of that ilk, rather than here on a PC overclocking forum?

I'd love a P90 as much as the next man, but I'd not ask where to get one here, for example... and I kinda want one a little bit less, now.

Have you read the thread, forum buddies who are in the know have posted some great info in reply to my questions. Some clever folk on here.

Longbow · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:15

jpod said:
I think you are over-reaching a little LB.

Are you aware that I am researching here to write an essay, keep your hair on.

I am sticking with my Webley 22 for home defence. Sadly it's not gold, but it could be!

And what essay is this? "I'm a 15 year old who loves Call of Duty, using an airweapon as "self defence" and suggesting 3d printers are viable for firearms manufacture"?

Avenged7Fold · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:21

A 3d printer capable of doing what you want it to do is going to be ridiculously expensive and very difficult to set up (since it is for industrial use and requires perfect calibration). You cant just 3d print a gun from any metal and start firing and you certainly cant mass produce and cheap out on the components to make such a machine. You can take my word on it, i dont need my years in physics to know that.

If you think it is easier to get a hold of a 3d printer capable of making a gun and some bullets rather than a gun and some bullets, then i am afraid you wont qualify when you apply for your gun license.

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:21

Yeah, yeah...... I apologise for possessing a sense of humour.

I have found the law re legal ownership here.
http://basc.org.uk/firearms/changes-to-legislation/

If anyone knows any current issues about owning guns legally and the law - I would like to hear more.

I understand that there are some proposed changes to the UK law, it is expensive and takes a while, based on what I have read here.

ttaskmaster · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:34

jpod said:
Have you read the thread, forum buddies who are in the know have posted some great info in reply to my questions. Some clever folk on here.

It is The Law.
Are they legal professionals specialising in this branch of law, fully qualified to give advice on such things?
Or are you only after anecdotal evidence and debates about what is and isn't a valid statistic?

Yes, opinions of gun owners can be of use, but surely you'd be best off starting with those who actually deal with this for a living?

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 17:45

Thank you for your advice TM, greatly appreciated.

Here is some info from the NCA for your viewing pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgAKvGJrbE4

Edrof · 16 Oct 2015 at 18:02

jpod said:
Lucky your not writing it then

I need to know more about the UK law on guns, that is what I am researching next.

If helps in any way, I own several deactivated firearms: a double-barrelled shotgun, a light machinegun, and two bolt-action rifles. If you're interested in any of them (how they are deactivated by the UK proofing house, for instance) just drop me a line.

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 18:16

Dolph said:
I see the usual statistically illiterate rubbish about gun crime is being posted. It wouldn't be so bad if such stupidity was not being used to support overly restrictive laws.

For gun legislation to be having a meaningful impact, the figures to look at are not gun crime figures. They tell you nothing useful. You need to look not at gun murders, but murders overall. If the gun bans had a beneficial effect. The overall murder rate will decrease. This hasn't happened in the UK, all that the gun ban did was change the murder weapon, it didn't stop people getting killed.

Unfortunately, we don't have enough protection in this country from idiotic populist law making, hence you get stupid pointless bans, much congratulatory back slapping and no benefit whatsoever rather than coherent, effective policy making.

Not sure I fully understand this Dolph, because the murder rate could be the same but violent crime didn't feature. How does that illustrate whether or not the gun laws are working.

Plus some victims may survive, they would have been victims of violent crime but not feature in the murder data.

Can you clarify.

NCA say that violent gun crime is reducing.

jpod · 16 Oct 2015 at 18:18

Edrof said:
If helps in any way, I own several deactivated firearms: a double-barrelled shotgun, a light machinegun, and two bolt-action rifles. If you're interested in any of them (how they are deactivated by the UK proofing house, for instance) just drop me a line.

I am interested, thanks. What is the UK proofing house?

Are they deactivated to a standard or is that voluntary?

Thanks

Edrof · 16 Oct 2015 at 18:58

jpod said:
I am interested, thanks. What is the UK proofing house?

Are they deactivated to a standard or is that voluntary?

Thanks

There's a lot to say, so if I skip something let me know.

There are two proofing houses in the UK: Birmingham and London. They carry out the deactivation process according to strict, government-set rules. The process of deactivation varies according to the type of firearm and there are heavy penalties for anyone having a go themselves or modifying an existing 'deac'.

To show a firearm is fully deactivated it must be stamped with the correct marks after the proofing house has rendered it useless (you are also issued a paper certificate but this is not regarded as proof of deactivation, on its own).

For instance, my bolt-action SMLE rifle has a long section cut out of the barrel's underside; the bolt face cut off and extractor removed; the firing pin cut in two; a large hole drilled into the chamber and a steel pin welded across it.

This means the rifle is utterly impossible to use as a firearm, and you can't even cycle an inert round. You can strip it, work the bolt, load inert rounds into the internal magazine and dry fire it, though, so it's a fair compromise. If a criminal wanted to restore it to being capable of discharging a projectile he would need to find or make almost every key part and it would be easier to manufacture a gun from scratch.

Similar measures are taken to render things like machineguns inoperable, meaning enthusiasts like me can legally own this sort of thing:

Assault rifles and submachineguns have even harsher standards and their actions are entirely welded up and non-moving. Past laws regarding deactivation standards were looser so it is possible to find 'old spec' deacs that can cycle inert rounds, have clear barrels and so on.

Terminal_Boy · 16 Oct 2015 at 19:03

jpod said:
I am interested, thanks. What is the UK proofing house?

Are they deactivated to a standard or is that voluntary?

Thanks

Heard of a search engine?

Avenged7Fold · 16 Oct 2015 at 19:09

Terminal_Boy said:
Heard of a search engine?

you cant find MM on google, you need post a ton of links here pretending like your interested in something first

setter · 17 Oct 2015 at 01:35

As a shooter I would never want to pull the trigger on something banged together on a 3d printer. I value my face, body and hands. Thank god here in Europe we have proof houses that test guns beyond normal load. Loyalist paramilitaries here used to make their own guns, more dangerous to the shooter than the intended target.

jpod · 17 Oct 2015 at 01:42

Edrof said:
There's a lot to say, so if I skip something let me know......................

Thanks for taking the time to post and pics too, awesome.

jpod · 17 Oct 2015 at 01:42

setter said:
As a shooter I would never want to pull the trigger on something banged together on a 3d printer. I value my face, body and hands. Thank god here in Europe we have proof houses that test guns beyond normal load. Loualist paramilitaries here used to make their own guns, mote dangerous to the shooter than the intended target.

Sports? Shotgun? Tell more.