Halal, is it meat you're looking for?

subbytna · 9 May 2014 at 15:34

BuffetSlayer said:
Those who do object, do not have to be told they are eating halal - what they do not know will not hurt.

So a bit like secretely feeding vegetarians meat then? What they won't know won't actually physically hurt them? Tell them it's a non meat sausage when in fact it turns out to be meat afterall.

It's not a matter of physically affecting them. It is a belief that goes against what they stand for. It's also the fact that Halal, to most in the country, causes un-necessary suffering to an animal/bird. All animals/birds being slaughtered should be stunned so as to minimise distress to it.

I don't see any difference between being given halal food when it's against your beliefs and being given meat when you're a veggie and against meat.

ak22 · 9 May 2014 at 15:35

Zbornak said:
Can anyone explain what people are up in arms about over halal animals that have been stunned before being slaughtered?

Isn't the same method used for non-halal meat except for reciting some religious verses?

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/07/halal-meat-restaurant-menus-humane-slaughter

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ers-say-clearer-labelling-needed-9330471.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-ritually-slaughtered-meat-dont-label-it.html

Comments for the Daily Fail article are depressing.

Why are they kicking up a fuss ? Well Muslims are the pretty much the punch bag these days, most people don't understand or fear Islam so they will just jump on the bag wagon.

subbytna · 9 May 2014 at 15:38

Some muslims don't see stunned halal animals as being 100% ok. They prefer it when the animal ISN'T stunned and then slaughtered. It's that "NON stunned" part that is causing the issue.

balky12 · 9 May 2014 at 15:57

ak22 said:
Why are they kicking up a fuss ? Well Muslims are the pretty much the punch bag these days, most people don't understand or fear Islam so they will just jump on the bag wagon.

Think some people are struggling to understand what people are against.

Not everyone who is against Halal is against Muslims. They are against the way the animals are slaughtered. (If its true Halal it is not stunned first)

Like I said earlier, if you replace our regular slaughtered animals, with 'XYZ' meat, that is slaughtered by drowning the animals first, you will get a similar response.

Don't get me wrong, there are people out there that are against Halal because of its association with Muslims.

People have to be careful to not tarnish everyone who is against Halal as racist muslim haters. If you are doing that, what makes you any different?

ak22 · 9 May 2014 at 16:40

Of course not everyone that is against halal is against Muslims but judging at most of the comments & on this thread and on news articles that were linked it seems that way.

BunnyKillBot · 9 May 2014 at 16:49

subbytna said:
So a bit like secretely feeding vegetarians meat then? What they won't know won't actually physically hurt them? Tell them it's a non meat sausage when in fact it turns out to be meat afterall.

I don't see any difference between being given halal food when it's against your beliefs and being given meat when you're a veggie and against meat.

Rubbish, and speaking as a vegetarian, your comparison is as disgusting as it is disturbing. Giving meat to a vegetarian is nothing even remotely like giving meat slaughtered in one way to somebody who prefers their meat slaughtered in another way. Slaughter is slaughter. If you deliberately give meat to a vegetarian and tell them afterwards, there is a high probability they will throw up in revulsion. You tell the meat eater the animal wasn't stunned before it was killed, they will probably be like 'oh, thats a shame'.

subbytna said:
It's also the fact that Halal, to most in the country, causes un-necessary suffering to an animal/bird. All animals/birds being slaughtered should be stunned so as to minimise distress to it.

1st) Big claim, nameless faceless internet person, and using 'fact' like its a given. Go on prove it. Get out your peer reviewed scientific papers.
2nd) You can dress it anyway you like, killing is killing. There is no 'humane' way to take away life, and measuring of distress and suffering is incredibly complex. But apparently you have all the answers, so out with them please. For the good of us all.

balky12 · 9 May 2014 at 16:49

ak22 said:
Of course not everyone that is against halal is against Muslims but judging at most of the comments & on this thread and on news articles that were linked it seems that way.

The hatred comes from somewhere. Most likely from reading the press and/or forgetting that the Muslims you hear about are the 5% that are extremists and make for good reading.

If you believe the press you would think that every celeb in the 70/80s was a rapist.

The Geezer · 9 May 2014 at 16:52

subbytna said:
It's also the fact that Halal, to most in the country, causes un-necessary suffering to an animal/bird. All animals/birds being slaughtered should be stunned so as to minimise distress to it.

Why is there not such an uproar on how the animals are reared ? Our animals (soon to be meat) are treated pretty poorly during their lives

balky12 · 9 May 2014 at 16:55

BunnyKillBot said:
Rubbish, and speaking as a vegetarian, your comparison is as disgusting as it is disturbing. Giving meat to a vegetarian is nothing even remotely like giving meat slaughtered in one way to somebody who prefers their meat slaughtered in another way. Slaughter is slaughter. If you deliberately give meat to a vegetarian and tell them afterwards, there is a high probability they will throw up in revulsion. You tell the meat eater the animal wasn't stunned before it was killed, they will probably be like 'oh, thats a shame'.

Easy there tiger. If you feel strongly about something, you feel strongly about something.

Unless you have those strong beliefs I think it is hard to pass judgement.

As an atheist and a meat eater I can't see at all why people get so bent out of shape about certain things, but I don't pretend to understand and let it be.

I am just throwing this out there, partly because I have never given it much thought. As a vegitarian are you one because you are against the slaughter of animals? If so, would you eat an animal that has died of natural causes?

I sit here and think how the hell can you resist the small of bacon. :rolleyes:

Efour · 9 May 2014 at 16:56

The Geezer said:
Why is there not such an uproar on how the animals are reared ? Our animals (soon to be meat) are treated pretty poorly during their lives

Some are some are not, stupid argument. :confused:

All animals can be killed inhumanely though.

If halal is so painless why don't they offer it in Vets as a way to put down sick pets??

ak22 · 9 May 2014 at 16:56

balky12 said:
The hatred comes from somewhere. Most likely from reading the press and/or forgetting that the Muslims you hear about are the 5% that are extremists and make for good reading.

If you believe the press you would think that every celeb in the 70/80s was a rapist.

I know its politics and media that spreads the hatred its happened in past with the Jews, Irish etc Just a shame that a lot of people are naive these days

BunnyKillBot · 9 May 2014 at 16:58

The Geezer said:
Why is there not such an uproar on how the animals are reared ? Our animals (soon to be meat) are treated pretty poorly during their lives

I do not want to rattle this cage too much because I believe people aren't stupid and can make up their own minds, but this times a thousand. The people complaining about halal vs stun and bolt have probably never stepped foot into a chicken shed for the meat market. Your nandos and your KFC has to come from somewhere. Are people really so naive as to believe its all hand reared free range? It is done as cheaply as possible, as close to the line as the law allows. Remember folks, it was only to look good for the olympic games in 2012 that battery hens were abolished. Cowards and hypocrites with their heads in the sand, trying to feel good about themselves by arguing on one ethical point, while another is a stones throw away and even worse.

Glaucus · 9 May 2014 at 16:59

The whole vegetarian being served meat thing verses halal meat is silly.
It is illegal to disguise meat as vegetrain.

There however is no law that requires companies to state rearing or slaughter methods.
So that who thing is stupid.

The Geezer · 9 May 2014 at 17:00

Efour said:
Some are some are not, stupid argument.

So your point of view is 6 years of suffering for milk cattle is OK as long it's stunned, for example :confused:

Glaucus · 9 May 2014 at 17:01

BunnyKillBot said:
I do not want to rattle this cage too much because I believe people aren't stupid and can make up their own minds, but this times a thousand. The people complaining about halal vs stun and bolt have probably never stepped foot into a chicken shed for the meat market. Your nandos and your KFC has to come from somewhere. Are people really so naive as to believe its all hand reared free range? It is done as cheaply as possible, as close to the line as the law allows. Remember folks, it was only to look good for the olympic games in 2012 olympic games that battery hens were abolished. Cowards and hypocrites with their heads in the sand.

Worked in a pig slaughter house, visited many farms, 99% of the time buy my meat from decent supplier.

So talk for yourself.

thep02 · 9 May 2014 at 17:04

Rofflay said:
annoying the hell out of the rest of the population.

Speak for yourself, you personally annoy me way more than any Muslim.

FoxEye · 9 May 2014 at 17:06

I care much more about the treatment of the animal when it was alive, than whether it's stunning before being killed.

Actually the stunning part I couldn't really care less about. You slit an animals throat and it dies very quickly.

For me, total non-issue.

BunnyKillBot · 9 May 2014 at 17:08

Glaucus said:
Worked in a pig slaughter house, visited many farms, 99% of the time buy my meat from decent supplier.

So talk for yourself.

Pig farms are an interesting one, and in general, UK reared meat is always better treated than their foreign counterparts because we have tougher laws. Foreign meat is thus often cheaper because of these relaxed conditions, the supermarkets know this, and consequently the market is skewed towards people buying unethically reared, imported meat, instead of legally 'ethical' meat from UK producers.

badcompany · 9 May 2014 at 17:08

balky12 said:
If you believe the press you would think that every celeb in the 70/80s was a rapist.

You mean they are not?

simple answer is to just eat pork.

Efour · 9 May 2014 at 17:17

The Geezer said:
So your point of view is 6 years of suffering for milk cattle is OK as long it's stunned, for example

wow .. no .. really? how do you even come to that conclusion.

I'm saying if animals are treated badly during their lives whats a better way to kill it?

How on earth do you think i advocate animal suffering and factory farming methods because i don't want it to bleed to death, arguably in pain and terror?

Id love every farm animal on earth to live a decent free range type lifestyle and to die as quick and painlessly as possible.

seriously ?? wow....