Hamilton to Mercedes? BBC

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MS has simply not been slow against Nico though? Or do you just look at points and conclude who is fastest?

stupid crashes - or sorry I guess you ignore those dont you

1 win and several podiums for Rosberg vs 1 podium for MS

There are numerous times when Rosberg has clearly been a lot faster than MS, and very few (if any) the other way round.

This is not down to "luck"/ "bad luck" how ever pro MS you want to be

All it's going to do in the immediate term is secure Fred or Seb another WDC in 2013.

I guess the McLaren is definitely going to be a bad car next year then (with or without the funding Perez is likely to bring to the team)
 
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All it's going to do in the immediate term is secure Fred or Seb another WDC in 2013.

If the McLaren is still a top car next year, I wouldn't be so fast to write off Button, or even Perez.

Vettel won in 2010 because the RBR was a dominant car. Its not any more.
Alonso is going to win this year because McLaren threw it away. You would hope they wont be doing that again.
 
stupid crashes - or sorry I guess you ignore those dont you

1 win and several podiums for Rosberg vs 1 podium for MS

There are numerous times when Rosberg has clearly been a lot faster than MS, and very few (if any) the other way round.

This is not down to "luck"/ "bad luck" how ever pro MS you want to be

You never mentioned stupid crashes, so how am I ignoring something not said?

You said he has been slow compared to Nico, which is not true.
 
I called Button joining McLaren long before it happened.

That said, I did say he would join, be a whipping boy for a few years and then retire with a decent bank balance, so that bit was wrong :D

Irony being Jenson WAS whipping Mclaren/Lewis in 2010/2011 and still is regardless of Lewis being a race win ahead this year :D
 
He's beating MSC because MSC is past it. HAM has comprehensively beaten ROS in lower Formula's, driving the same car.

I think they raced for the same team in carts but after a (very quick) look could only see them competing in the same series in 2004 Formula 3 Euro driving for different teams and Rosberg won by 2 points.

I think Rosberg is a good driver, if unspectacular. He tends to go about his business and have decent races with decent results. Which is sort of the opposite of how Hamilton usuallly is, so it could work out fairly well.
 
Great move for both teams. Hamilton's very quick but his input and teamwork seems limited and he's a disruptive influence. Replacing him with a young exciting driver that'll get his head down and work rather than throw his toys out the pram whenever something goes wrong will benefit McLaren greatly in the long run.

As for Mercedes, replacing an ageing driver with someone as quick as Hamilton should push them on to the next level.
 
Why are people claiming he sold out and that its all just for the money? Thats a pretty ridiculous thing to say IMO.

Mclaren matched the pay offer from Merc, its clear that although it helps, money was not the deciding factor.

The main causes seem to be that something was not right between him and the team, and also that Brawn has convinced him thaqt Merc will have a good car in the future.

It's pretty clear to me he wants to try and do the same as Michael when he moved to a poor Ferrari team, and managed to turn it into a dominant team for a few years. It could happen, nobody knows, but it could also go horribly wrong and they could continue to produce weak cars. It's all a big gamble really.
 
Why are people claiming he sold out and that its all just for the money? Thats a pretty ridiculous thing to say IMO.

Mclaren matched the pay offer from Merc, its clear that although it helps, money was not the deciding factor.

The main causes seem to be that something was not right between him and the team, and also that Brawn has convinced him thaqt Merc will have a good car in the future.

It's pretty clear to me he wants to try and do the same as Michael when he moved to a poor Ferrari team, and managed to turn it into a dominant team for a few years. It could happen, nobody knows, but it could also go horribly wrong and they could continue to produce weak cars. It's all a big gamble really.

Mclaren didn't match it.

"Although Hamilton's salary at Mercedes will be larger than the one he was offered by McLaren - and he has more opportunity to earn money through personal sponsorships and endorsements - sources close to the Englishman insist he has switched teams with a view to long-term performance. "
 
Mclaren didn't match it.

"Although Hamilton's salary at Mercedes will be larger than the one he was offered by McLaren - and he has more opportunity to earn money through personal sponsorships and endorsements - sources close to the Englishman insist he has switched teams with a view to long-term performance. "

Ok, maybe they just increased ti to be closer to Merc's offer. Either way my point still stands. To claim he has moved just for the money is pretty silly IMO.
 
I don't see the move as a bad thing.

Mclaren have only won one driver's championship in 13 years! They have lost engineers, Ron Dennis, key sponsors and will now have to pay for their engines. I can't see the team improving anymore which is a great shame for a local team.

Mercedes will offer more money, have more money for development come the 2014 changes, have less competition from Rosberg rather than Button.

And if it doesn't work out, maybe he'll hop over to Red Bull if they're still competitive in 2-3 years!
 
Would that be the 2011 where Jenson finished the season on 270 points and Lewis only on 227? 12 Podiums for Jenson and only 6 for Hamilton?

To say he's a whipping boy is to talk out of you rear. He went to McLaren for the challenge and has clearly not been embarrassed by Hamilton.

Uhuh... I think you should read my post again mate...

You're talking to someone who named their 18 month old son Jenson. ;)

to be fair maybe I didn't make it very clear what I was going at though, I'll give you that :p
 
Great move for both teams. Hamilton's very quick but his input and teamwork seems limited and he's a disruptive influence. Replacing him with a young exciting driver that'll get his head down and work rather than throw his toys out the pram whenever something goes wrong will benefit McLaren greatly in the long run.

As for Mercedes, replacing an ageing driver with someone as quick as Hamilton should push them on to the next level.

Why do people talk about him throwing tantrums and not having input with the team or being disruptive. Do people really not get that this stuff that happens, like being angry post race, is a MEDIA story that drags on but is likely completely ignored by the team from three seconds after its said. What disruption has he caused? No input, yet he seems to get the car setup perfectly and quickly while Button seems to need Hamilton's setup help to get anywhere this year?

Button has criticised the car pretty much before, during and after every single race all year long "the balance, the tires, the balance the tires".

Hamilton says stuff after races, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, so what. He seems to work well with his engineers or he wouldn't get the car working so well so quickly.

Button seems to go out of his way to make up excuses and from my point of view tends to stick the knife in to Hamilton whenever he can. IE 100 points off the title Button refused to concede it, one bad weekend for Hamilton and Button was only too happy to announce NEITHER of them have a chance at the title now.

The press bang on and on and on about minor stories for months like they meant anything, the likelyhood is most comments post race don't ever get mentioned again inside the team.


In terms of Salary, still seen nothing concrete but going by the Sun's numbers(first and only ones I've spotted yet), basic salary was similar(12mil a year) salary + bonuses at Merc could have pushed that to 20mil a year(assuming that is for winning the title + certain number of races), but the personal sponsorship would be where the biggest increase came from.

Anyone happen to know why Mclaren only allow one sponsorship? to get a better price for team sponsors?
 
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Ok, maybe they just increased ti to be closer to Merc's offer. Either way my point still stands. To claim he has moved just for the money is pretty silly IMO.

Im not saying its correct but look at it another way

1) Merc wins vs McLaren (even just this year, or to benefit Merc a little incl Brawn wins and McLaren would still be out front)

2) Even with the Merc money behind him, Brawn hasnt managed that well in the last three years - and its likely to be four before that changes. Its a 50/50 bet whether Brawn and Merc comes out a winner (on reg changes etc) in 2014

3) Simon fuller was looking at the personal sponsorship package LH could earn at Merc (that would be relatively non-existant at McLaren) which is why LH's "advisors" where pushing this deal instead of McLaren

4) Its just as easy to argue that McLaren have such a history of winning that the WDC / WCC is only a matter of time before they win it again. Merc still have to prove they can win it as a team (given that majority of Brawn arent there any more). No more or no less likely than Mercedes winning in 2014

I don't see the move as a bad thing.

Mclaren have only won one driver's championship in 13 years! They have lost engineers, Ron Dennis, key sponsors and will now have to pay for their engines. I can't see the team improving anymore which is a great shame for a local team!

RD still owns the team (in part admittedly), he may not manage it day to day but he still has a lot of input

By the looks of things Perez brings all the sponsorship McLaren could wish for (without considering what are rolling contracts on a decently successful team)

The wages saved on LH will pay for the engines near enough
 
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