Hamilton to Mercedes? BBC

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FrankJH said:
2) Even with the Merc money behind him, Brawn hasnt managed that well in the last three years - and its likely to be four before that changes. Its a 50/50 bet whether Brawn and Merc comes out a winner (on reg changes etc) in 2014
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daimler havent been willing to throw money at the team and the shareholders arent to kee on f1 atleast the vocal shareholders.

putting the amg monika on the team seemed to be a way for mercedes to distance there core brand from the f1 team.

the budgets for 2011 were
1] Ferrari: €440m (Same budget since 2008, 2012 will see it go down to €300m)
2] McLaren: €320m (Down €5m on 2010, 2012 will see it go down to €285m)
3] Red Bull: €285m (up €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
4] Mercedes: €225m (up €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
5] Renault: €185m (down €40m on 2010, uncertain for 2012)
6] Williams: €140m (down €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
7] Force India: €135m (up €10m on 2010, will drop to €130m for 2012)
8] Sauber: €125m (up from €75m in 2010, will stay same in 2012)
=] Toro Rosso: €125m (up €15m from 2010, will increase to €140m in 2012)
10] Team Lotus: €120m (€20m up on 2010, however 2012 will see this riase to a minimum of €150m)
11] Virgin: €66m (up from €45m in 2010, this is expected to rise to €85m for 2012)
12] Hispania: €55m (up from a €38.6m budget, expected to rise to a budget of arround €65m to €70m in 2012)

you have been proven over and over again to be blind where MS is concerend so there is no point going further
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i agree mr men is wasting his time

evidence suggests rosberg was the faster driver
joCLl.jpg

3 places behind ms on average but still faster!
 
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arknor said:
daimler havent been willing to throw money at the team and the shareholders arent to kee on f1 atleast the vocal shareholders.

putting the amg monika on the team seemed to be a way for mercedes to distance there core brand from the f1 team.

the budgets for 2011 were
1] Ferrari: €440m (Same budget since 2008, 2012 will see it go down to €300m)
2] McLaren: €320m (Down €5m on 2010, 2012 will see it go down to €285m)
3] Red Bull: €285m (up €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
4] Mercedes: €225m (up €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
5] Renault: €185m (down €40m on 2010, uncertain for 2012)
6] Williams: €140m (down €40m on 2010, will stay same for 2012)
7] Force India: €135m (up €10m on 2010, will drop to €130m for 2012)
8] Sauber: €125m (up from €75m in 2010, will stay same in 2012)
=] Toro Rosso: €125m (up €15m from 2010, will increase to €140m in 2012)
10] Team Lotus: €120m (€20m up on 2010, however 2012 will see this riase to a minimum of €150m)
11] Virgin: €66m (up from €45m in 2010, this is expected to rise to €85m for 2012)
12] Hispania: €55m (up from a €38.6m budget, expected to rise to a budget of arround €65m to €70m in 2012)
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compared to Brawn, Merc are mega rich (as a team) :)

Would be interesting to know how much MS is taking in salary compared to LH's supposed joining salary (wondering if that will leave more money for design /development for 2013)
 
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FrankJH said:
Im not saying its correct but look at it another way

1) Merc wins vs McLaren (even just this year, or to benefit Merc a little incl Brawn wins and McLaren would still be out front)

2) Even with the Merc money behind him, Brawn hasnt managed that well in the last three years - and its likely to be four before that changes. Its a 50/50 bet whether Brawn and Merc comes out a winner (on reg changes etc) in 2014

3) Simon fuller was looking at the personal sponsorship package LH could earn at Merc (that would be relatively non-existant at McLaren) which is why LH's "advisors" where pushing this deal instead of McLaren

4) Its just as easy to argue that McLaren have such a history of winning that the WDC / WCC is only a matter of time before they win it again. Merc still have to prove they can win it as a team (given that majority of Brawn arent there any more). No more or no less likely than Mercedes winning in 2014
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1/If a driver wants a world title, wins don't matter, consistency does, Mclaren should be WAY out infront, with a 1-2 in the championship and massive lead in the constructors, Alonso is showing consistency matters more than wins.

2/afaik they've been spending way less in the past 3 years and have only got staff levels back to where they were years ago, in the past year or so. If that is the case they haven't had the Brawn money for 3 years, they've lacked it, and if they've got their staff levels back up in the past year, not sure why it would take 4 years to show up? Considering the supposed lack of money and lack of staff, and two drivers of whom neither are the best on the grid, the fact they are as close as they are is actually encouraging surely?

4/ the difference is he's been at Mclaren and their ability to win races when the car is the best on the weekend is spotty at best. Right or wrong, if he's lost trust in his team at Mclaren and Brawn has persuaded him that if they can get the right car their ability to win a title is better than Mclarens, that is all that is key here.

Mclaren HAVE the best car this year and currently almost no chance at the title.... Mclaren having the best car isn't the key, its Hamilton's belief that they can put that car into a title winning position and Mclaren have fallen over themselves for 4 years suggesting they can't.
 
FrankJH said:
compared to Brawn, Merc are mega rich (as a team) :)
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hasnt done muchh for them though people with 1/3 of the budget are managing to beat them.

to much cooks and even more coming with lauda to stir the pot.

Would be interesting to know how much MS is taking in salary compared to LH's supposed joining salary (wondering if that will leave more money for design /development for 2013)
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ms was taking around 10 million but bringing 30 million to the team as dieter said a few years ago they had a 20mil profit from sponsors even after paying his wage.
 
arknor said:
evidence suggests rosberg was the faster driver
joCLl.jpg

3 places behind ms on average but still faster!
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Don't suppose you have the same set of money numbers for the previous years? I'm under the impression that Merc have been spending more every season for a couple season and are still well below the top 3, but that the gap is closing? I'm not sure when the supposed massive drop in the spending/staff happened to the team in general(merc or whoever).

Anyway, the Schumi results, anyone remember off the top of their heads where Schumi was in relation to Rossberg in the DNF races? He was doing very well in some of them IIRC, though not great in a couple others, and considering most of them were car failures rather than mistakes.

For me Schumi has suffered in qualifying, and been far better than Rosberg in the races this year. I would go as far as to say that Rosberg has been completely rubbish this year.
 
drunkenmaster said:
1/If a driver wants a world title, wins don't matter, consistency does, Mclaren should be WAY out infront, with a 1-2 in the championship and massive lead in the constructors, Alonso is showing consistency matters more than wins.

Merc havent shown consistancy either - unless you mean going progressively backwards each season

2/afaik they've been spending way less in the past 3 years and have only got staff levels back to where they were years ago, in the past year or so. If that is the case they haven't had the Brawn money for 3 years, they've lacked it, and if they've got their staff levels back up in the past year, not sure why it would take 4 years to show up? Considering the supposed lack of money and lack of staff, and two drivers of whom neither are the best on the grid, the fact they are as close as they are is actually encouraging surely?

BS they have been building up for at least two years (yes I know 2010 was on a restricted workforce, but winter of 2010, and winter of 2011 they did a lot of hiring)
4/ the difference is he's been at Mclaren and their ability to win races when the car is the best on the weekend is spotty at best. Right or wrong, if he's lost trust in his team at Mclaren and Brawn has persuaded him that if they can get the right car their ability to win a title is better than Mclarens, that is all that is key here.

Mclaren HAVE the best car this year and currently almost no chance at the title.... Mclaren having the best car isn't the key, its Hamilton's belief that they can put that car into a title winning position and Mclaren have fallen over themselves for 4 years suggesting they can't.
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LH's ****** last season wasnt the team, it was as much his fault

JB proved it was a good car race week after race week, LH wasnt mentally there otherwise they would have at least challanged for the WCC
 
Wasn't it only this year Mercedes got their staffing levels back up to where they were before Brawn cut jobs in 2009.

So it's fair to assume that their performances from now on should improve. Or at least their ability to develop throughout the season.

I think it's a good move for Hamilton. He obviously does too since he made the move.

Keen to know what the next move is for Michael. Mercedes are being lambasted at the moment for dropping him. Would love to see him at Ferrari for a season, with Massa rejoining Sauber.
 
Wasn't it only this year Mercedes got their staffing levels back up to where they were before Brawn cut jobs in 2009.
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no they had a mass recruiting spree in 2010-2011

although a couple of the big names only came in after this years car would have been built and the guy who was in charge of aero recently left.

i havent saw any signs they are moving forward though
 
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i think he has moved mainly to hopefully do well in 2014.

a year to settle in and with the big changes in 14 hopefully come out at the pointy end.

no one can tell the future, mclaren could have another season like 09, who knows.

hamilton will have to be cut out of anything to do with next seasons car. will be interesting to see how both parties cope for the rest of this season.
 
I really don't care about Hamilton. His first couple of seasons were special but since then he's become too much of a marketing tool and made very silly mistakes on and off the track.

This is great news for Button though. For the first time he is the lead driver in a well established team as a well established driver. We will really get the chance to see what he can do while he has this great opportunity and I think signing Perez could yield some great results for the team and make his career. 2013 could be a great one before the regs change :)
 
No one has mentioned this yet.....could Lewis be bringing lots of tricks from Mclaren on how to make a car fast? It's early enough to influence next year's car and beyond. Gonna be frosty in the Mclaren garage until the end of the season.
 
utajoker said:
ino one can tell the future, mclaren could have another season like 09, who knows.
.
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Remember of course 09 was a little deceptive with the double diffuser rule change, no drastic rule change is due this winter

Of course its still possible that the '13 McLaren is a piece of **** and doesnt do anything on the track, but I really hope not for everyone concerned:)

Skeeter said:
I'd say he was the lead driver at Honda, and they were well established.

They were pants, but well establised :D
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there was a history of not getting enough sponsorship though (Earth car anyone ? lol) JB (with help of a lot of people behind the scenes) still developed it into a race winning car (before the 09 season)
 
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