Windsurfing thing, got pinned underwater, inhaled lots of water and died a bit temporarily.... a passing scuba diver saved me, which was nice.
Harmless 39 year old alcoholic woman tortured and beaten to death by girls aged 13 and 14.
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Windsurfing thing, got pinned underwater, inhaled lots of water and died a bit temporarily.... a passing scuba diver saved me, which was nice.
Rehabilitation isn't just a simple matter of them being unlikely to do it again though is it!
It is about the level of risk that they might do it again!
What level of risk would rehabilitation advocates be willing to "Sign Off" on?
What level of risk would be considered acceptable for the "Advocates" if they were to be held personally liable for any future offences??
(I really would like an answer to that actually.)
It is also about other peoples willingness to accept the idea that somebody might be "rehabilitated". What level of risk are the wider public willing to accept?
For a case like this, 1:100 is to me far too high! 1:1000, 1:10,000 might also be far too high.
Personally I doubt if even the brutal aversion therapy that "Alex" was treated with in "Clockwork Orange" would actually be more than 90% effective. 1:10 is absolutely nowhere near enough good enough in a case like this!
These two should never again be free to live with other unsuspecting people in open society.
This does not mean that I think they should necessarily be executed or end up spending the rest of their lives in a windowless 600Ft^3 cell. (though were that to be the choice I would have them executed)
I would be perfectly happy to see them given a 6 month course in survival crofting and then set loose on west Falkland to live out their lives as best they can on the understanding that if they ever come back to the UK they will be executed.
(I consider Life in prison to be inhumane (Much more more so than execution), however I consider Exile to be perfectly fair and reasonable, Implicit in my idea is that if they escape west Falkland and end up in (say) Uruguay, then good luck to them. Just as long as they never come back to the UK)
Soldato
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Windsurfing thing, got pinned underwater, inhaled lots of water and died a bit temporarily.... a passing scuba diver saved me, which was nice.
Wow, thats one hell of a stroke of luck.
I'd say to anyone advocating capital punishment would they be the hangman? Although i can see in your case you mean what you say.
I have to admit i'd find it hard to justify rehabilitation, your point is very valid that its hard to see our current "justice" system being able to deal with these two.
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The older one did claim throughout that the younger one goaded her into continuing to attack.
She also claimed that she believed throughout that it was not possible to actually kill someone by just assaulting them.
Big fibs to stand your defence on in a court of law. Jury didn't agree.
You do not have to have a hangman.
A small airtight room is sufficient.
Furnish it with an assortment of the means of inflicting self imposed death and lock him (her) in for 7 days (Or whatever is calculated to be necessary)
(Hand gun, Knife, Poison, Gas, Mills Bomb, whatever)
If the condemned man chooses none of those, he(she) will suffocate anyway.
Nobody needs to be an executioner.
Soldato
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You do not have to have a hangman.
A small airtight room is sufficient.
Furnish it with an assortment of the means of inflicting self imposed death and lock him (her) in for 7 days (Or whatever is calculated to be necessary)
(Hand gun, Knife, Poison, Gas, Mills Bomb, whatever)
If the condemned man chooses none of those, he(she) will suffocate anyway.
Nobody needs to be an executioner.
Im sure i neednt point out that the man who locks that door and walks away knowing full well his actions will cause their death no matter how indirectly carries the guilt of the executioner
The closest you can come is how the firing squads worked in ww1, half the guns loaded with wooden bullets (which produced felt recoil unlike a blank but were non lethal), the man firing wouldnt know which he'd fired and could live with the hope his had been a blank, but even then the officer commanding and the man who loaded the rifles shared the knowledge that they had been an intergral part of the system.
The only way is death by committee- a group who unanimously unite (like a jury giving the verdict knowing the death penalty) to perform the act, the guilt is there but shared as every member has the consolation that everyone else equally agreed with their actions.
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Not if the air does replenish though, then its just a matter of choice and relative desire for suicide on part of the subject.
Soldato
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This is true, although you then have the obligation to keep them in reasonable health until they either perish of old age (aka life imprisonment) or choose to end their own life.
Death by comittee would be faster, basically your choice of execution setup married with a "two key" system as used for nuclear launch sites, if its good enough for causing armageddon its good enough for killing convicts
Depends how picky you want to get
The door doest need to be actively locked, simply locks on closing. I am sure there are ways of making somebody choose the door out of their own free will.
One might also include a challenge that offers a possibility of escape and even a pardon, (A bit Like "Saw" perhaps
)
Soldato
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Depends how picky you want to get
The door doest need to be actively locked, simply locks on closing. I am sure there are ways of making somebody choose the door out of their own free will.
One might also include a challenge that offers a possibility of escape and even a pardon, (A bit Like "Saw" perhaps
Its like the question of the use of drones in warfare that can decide autonomously wether to kill or not, if said drone makes a mistake that causes civilian casualties who is to blame? The programmers? The service engineers? The commander?
Indeed, who is to fault if your self driving car runs somebody over.
Google, the manufacturer, the owner, the garage who previously serviced it.
Ultimatly it is sort of accepted that there is a point where one can claim "distance".
If you cannot claim distance then ultimately it will not be possible to do anything.
(If you are going to be all touchy feely about this then you should also consider the possibility that Judges/Parole boards should be made personally responsible for the offences that those that they release on bail/suspended/reduced/etc sentences end up committing because they are not actually reformed.)
Soldato
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My point is simply that there does need to be at least one person who accepts all or part of the heavy pshycological load that accompanies taking another humans life in cold blood involves.
Even when there is every reasonable justification for taking life and the most stressful of circumstances as is the case with soldiers who are as mentally prepared as anyone can be to kill without thought can still end up with ptsd.
I'm not saying a cold hearted killer doesnt exist, the issue is theyre more likely to be the one with the high voltage hat on
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Capital punishment is a waste of perfectly good human beings.
Murders, rapists and corrupt politicians could be used for nuclear waste disposal, mine clearing, medical experimentation, organ transplants.
Murders, rapists and corrupt politicians could be used for nuclear waste disposal, mine clearing, medical experimentation, organ transplants.
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Even China can't get away with that sort of thing.
I think the pair of them maybe beyond rehabilitation (but I know nothing of such things), such terrible things they have done at such a young age, one life cruelly stolen and two wasted before they have even properly began.
Actually I thought China did this all the time.
They even target the bullets so as not to damage the spare parts that have already been designated elsewhere.
Even if capital punishment was still on the statute books, in the 20th century it could only be passed as a sentence on those over 18 years old.
However this pair need to be made an example of, 30 years minimum before even considered for parole and not in cushy conditions either seems like a good starting basis for their sentence.
But sadly we know what will happen - it will be 8 - 10 years if that, to "give them a chance" as adults...
However this pair need to be made an example of, 30 years minimum before even considered for parole and not in cushy conditions either seems like a good starting basis for their sentence.
But sadly we know what will happen - it will be 8 - 10 years if that, to "give them a chance" as adults...
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life in prison, with a minimum of 15 years
So probably 15 years, or out in 3 because everyone forgot about it, it's against their human rights or they're now remorseful.
I'd be surprised if it's anywhere near 15 years in the end.
Hope it is 15 and not less.