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have AMD stopped competing

sideways14a said:
Folk were saying the same thing about AMD and there CPUs not long ago, things can change very quickly..
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AMD have had a pretty miserable time of it lately from more than one angle - I don't see their position as one that can't be recovered from.

During the financial concerns back in 2013? or whenever it was their investors, etc. were saying they'd pull the plug rather than incur any additional risk to themselves and talk of divesting of RTG to help prop up the rest of the company and all the knock on of that which probably resulted in reduced investment in that side of the company. Which is no longer an issue really.

They've had less than ideal circumstances with regard to the node their GPUs are made on and HBM/HBM2 progress/development amongst other things related to hardware and software.

And then there is the mentality - too much persevering in the face of all the evidence along certain paths.

Move past those and there is no reason AMD can't return to a successful position in this market.
 
AMD do still have some use for their Graphics :(

Ryzen 1 (Not to be confused with Ryzen 2, which they are not) APU's just launched... they are pretty good, the 2400G is £150, 2200G sub £100

image.png
 
Rroff said:
Generally the biggest sales volumes are the like one up from slowest and one down from fastest mid-range cards - AMD wasn't actually that misguided with the idea of focusing on trying to pickup the mid-range area with the 480 but the problem is consumer perception - they can't carry that indefinitely without a halo card that is in the same ballpark as the top dog even if it isn't the top dog.

The current top 4 on Steam HW survey for instance are the 1060 (impossible to know how much of that is the slower one). 960. 750ti and 1050ti.
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humbug said:
Yes.

AMD have not been able to sell enough cards to remain competitive, its down to mindshare, even if 'as they have been' AMD cards are as good as nVidia's or even better people still buy nVidia.

Years of that has drained AMD of funds, no funds no R&D, no R&D no new cards.

AMD know they cannot ever make any money in Gaming GPU's and they will probably never bother making a serious gaming GPU ever again.
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AMD needs a top dog, the world fastest cards for at least 2-3 generations, at that possible point, consumers perceptions will start to change.
Otherwise, they might survive, but still would always be struggling and suffering.
 
4K8KW10 said:
AMD needs a top dog, the world fastest cards for at least 2-3 generations, at that possible point, consumers perceptions will start to change.
Otherwise, they might survive, but still would always be struggling and suffering.
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Yeah, but that is what it would take.
 
humbug said:
Which also helps AMD ^^^^ just not in a way that people here would like, it just confirms AMD are better off scaling back and selling IP to MS and Intel and the likes...



The last ATI GPU was the 3000 series, the first AMD GPU was the HD 4000 series.

AMD saved ATI from oblivion.
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That was when AMD decided to discard the ATI brand name. The last ATI gpus before being acquired by amd were the 19xx series, it all went pretty much downhill from there (marketshare wise). Now that does not mean that ATI would have done better on its own. There have been times that AMD had gpus that performed just as good as Nvidia's, yet people were mostly buying Nvidia for many reasons that we argued to death in the past and it involved a lot of bans and suspensions in this forum.
 
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NZXT30 said:
That was when AMD decided to discard the ATI brand name. The last ATI gpus before being acquired by amd were the 19xx series, it all went pretty much downhill from there (marketshare wise). Now that does not mean that ATI would have done better on its own. There was a time that AMD had gpus that performed just as good as Nvidia's yet people were mostly buying Nvidia for many reasons that we have argued to death in the past and it involved a lot of bans and suspensions in this forum.
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With CRT analogue monitors Nvidia had always been the clear underperforming underdog. Matrox completely destroyed anything GeForce quality wise, so did ATi.
Radeons did provide better image quality in games, too.
So, what exactly are these reasons that the most stupid manufacturer got the most lucky to survive in the best shape nowadays? Doesn't make much sense, does it?
 
4K8KW10 said:
With CRT analogue monitors Nvidia had always been the clear underperforming underdog. Matrox completely destroyed anything GeForce quality wise, so did ATi.
Radeons did provide better image quality in games, too.
So, what exactly are these reasons that the most stupid manufacturer got the most lucky to survive in the best shape nowadays? Doesn't make much sense, does it?
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Hehe mate you're scratching some pretty old wounds there :D
 
4K8KW10 said:
With CRT analogue monitors Nvidia had always been the clear underperforming underdog. Matrox completely destroyed anything GeForce quality wise, so did ATi.
Radeons did provide better image quality in games, too.
So, what exactly are these reasons that the most stupid manufacturer got the most lucky to survive in the best shape nowadays? Doesn't make much sense, does it?
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Reasons, they sold more units, not rocket science :p
 
NZXT30 said:
That was when AMD decided to discard the ATI brand name. The last ATI gpus before being acquired by amd were the 19xx series, it all went pretty much downhill from there (marketshare wise). Now that does not mean that ATI would have done better on its own. There have been times that AMD had gpus that performed just as good as Nvidia's, yet people were mostly buying Nvidia for many reasons that we argued to death in the past and it involved a lot of bans and suspensions in this forum.
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We are our own worst enemy,

The 4870 was a GTX 280 for half the money, nVidia sold far more 280's than AMD 4870's
The 5870 was a masterpiece that blew the 280 out of the water, even nVidia's GTX 480 response could not match it, add to that the GTX 480 was heavily criticized for all sorts of reasons, nVidia sold something like twice as many GTX 480's as AMD HD 5870's.
By the time it came to the HD 6000 series AMD not getting the sales was starting to show in their R&D, it was a HD 5000 series rehash, nVidia had all of the money going their way and that showed in their R&D, they managed to improve the GTX 480 enough to make the GTX 580 a better card than the HD 5870, re-branded HD 6970.
From there on it was all down hill and now we are where we are.

Yes, there were a lot of arguments during those years, i remember them, it seems to me we now have what the majority of us wanted, now reap our deserved rewards, its AMD powered consoles for you my friend. <rhetorical, not aimed at you. :)
 
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humbug said:
We are our own worst enemy,

The 4870 was a GTX 280 for half the money, nVidia sold far more 280's than AMD 4870's
The 5870 was a masterpiece that blew the 280 out of the water, even nVidia's GTX 480 response could not match it, add to that the GTX 480 was heavily criticized for all sorts of reasons, nVidia sold something like twice as many GTX 480's as AMD HD 5870's.
By the time it came to the HD 6000 series AMD not getting the sales was starting to show in their R&D, it was a HD 5000 series rehash, nVidia had all of the money going their way and that showed in their R&D, they managed to improve the GTX 480 enough to make the GTX 580 a better card than the HD 5870, re-branded HD 6970.
From there on it was all down hill and now we are where we are.

Yes, there were a lot of arguments during those years, i remember them, it seems to me we now have what the majority of us wanted, now reap our deserved rewards, its AMD powered consoles for you my friend. <rhetorical, not aimed at you. :)
Click to expand...

Mindshare and a case of the sheep following the sheep. AMD had Nvidia by the balls and yet the sheep kept going to Nvidia for their hardware.
 
humbug said:
We are our own worst enemy,

The 4870 was a GTX 280 for half the money, nVidia sold far more 280's than AMD 4870's
The 5870 was a masterpiece that blew the 280 out of the water, even nVidia's GTX 480 response could not match it, add to that the GTX 480 was heavily criticized for all sorts of reasons, nVidia sold something like twice as many GTX 480's as AMD HD 5870's.
By the time it came to the HD 6000 series AMD not getting the sales was starting to show in their R&D, it was a HD 5000 series rehash, nVidia had all of the money going their way and that showed in their R&D, they managed to improve the GTX 480 enough to make the GTX 580 a better card than the HD 5870, re-branded HD 6970.
From there on it was all down hill and now we are where we are.

Yes, there were a lot of arguments during those years, i remember them, it seems to me we now have what the majority of us wanted, now reap our deserved rewards, its AMD powered consoles for you my friend. <rhetorical, not aimed at you. :)
Click to expand...
Yup and I don't really blame AMD for not wanting to compete right now. If we were frustrated can you imagine them? They tried everything. Not only the price cuts you mentioned but think about how many times Catalyst control centre was redesigned just to get rid of the "amd has bad drivers" stigma, yet Nvidia control panel has stayed pretty much the same and looks pretty archaic these days but nobody cares? Not to mention supporting open standards. As a last ditch effort they thought, hey maybe the lower prices devalues our product so lets try similar prices for similar performance and we'll even throw in an AIO watercooler but nope, it made things even worse.

The sales difference between Amd and Nvidia has really baffled a lot of amd fans so I guess that's why the term nvidiot (only mentioning it for historical reasons) was born, it cost people quite a few forum accounts :p
 
NZXT30 said:
Yup and I don't really blame AMD for not wanting to compete right now. If we were frustrated can you imagine them? They tried everything. Not only the price cuts you mentioned but think about how many times Catalyst control centre was redesigned just to get rid of the "amd has bad drivers" stigma, yet Nvidia control panel has stayed pretty much the same and looks pretty archaic these days but nobody cares? Not to mention supporting open standards. As a last ditch effort they thought, hey maybe the lower prices devalues our product so lets try similar prices for similar performance and we'll even throw in an AIO watercooler but nope, it made things even worse.

The sales difference between Amd and Nvidia has really baffled a lot of amd fans so I guess that's why the term nvidiot (only mentioning it for historical reasons) was born, it cost people quite a few forum accounts :p
Click to expand...

You might want to look at the Nvidia Focus Group back in the day- Nvidia were just better at marketing their stuff better,and exploiting ATI/AMD weakness better too.

For instance when the R9 290/290X launched the AMD drivers had a quiet mode,and Nvidia actually started contacting reviews about issues they had "discovered" regarding this and they even sent cards out too for reviewers to highlight it.
 
Rroff said:
AMD have had a pretty miserable time of it lately from more than one angle - I don't see their position as one that can't be recovered from.

During the financial concerns back in 2013? or whenever it was their investors, etc. were saying they'd pull the plug rather than incur any additional risk to themselves and talk of divesting of RTG to help prop up the rest of the company and all the knock on of that which probably resulted in reduced investment in that side of the company. Which is no longer an issue really.

They've had less than ideal circumstances with regard to the node their GPUs are made on and HBM/HBM2 progress/development amongst other things related to hardware and software.

And then there is the mentality - too much persevering in the face of all the evidence along certain paths.

Move past those and there is no reason AMD can't return to a successful position in this market.
Click to expand...


AMD also just packed flexibility and backup plans.

Take the HBM issues. Nvidia knew stacked memory could be useful and initially worked with micron, then realized HBM would better, but it wasn't ready for mainstream due to high costs, they smoothly switched to GDDR5x, and now 6. AMD however put all their eggs in one basket. HBM made Fuji short on Vram, delayed production, increased production costs and complexity, reduced supply. Nvidia by only using HBM on server parts meant margins were huge and volume low, perfect to get a new tech going.

I fear AMD are still looking at HBM but the future HBM just don't look that enticing compared to to GDDR6. HBM2 hasn't really scaled much in density or speed. The next HBM stabdrst on the horizon is supposed to be a slower lower cost lower power version for embedded, nothing for a high end GPU.

The whole GF thing is also kind of their fault
 
NV knows how to sell their stuff same as Apple.

AMD got Slides Hype and this...

Amd says they care that gamers get Vega first.... Few weeks later releases Blockchain driver for mining..
 
NZXT30 said:
Yup and I don't really blame AMD for not wanting to compete right now. If we were frustrated can you imagine them? They tried everything. Not only the price cuts you mentioned but think about how many times Catalyst control centre was redesigned just to get rid of the "amd has bad drivers" stigma, yet Nvidia control panel has stayed pretty much the same and looks pretty archaic these days but nobody cares? Not to mention supporting open standards. As a last ditch effort they thought, hey maybe the lower prices devalues our product so lets try similar prices for similar performance and we'll even throw in an AIO watercooler but nope, it made things even worse.

The sales difference between Amd and Nvidia has really baffled a lot of amd fans so I guess that's why the term nvidiot (only mentioning it for historical reasons) was born, it cost people quite a few forum accounts :p
Click to expand...


What many AMD fans forget is that not everyone cares about saving a few dollars or getting 78FPS instead of 73. Things like features, prior driver experiences, true plug n play feel, OpenGL support, Linux support, CUDA support, SLI etc.

Marketing Is world's apart. Nvidia have always invested heavily in developer relations. TWIMTBP or whatever stamped every where. Nvidia always tried a full stack of GPUs and always tried to push the fastest GLUs even if there were major compromises. AMD frequently offer a judge podge of different generations. How does Vega compared to Polaris, and where does Fiji fit in? Nvidia like to have many cards sitting at the top of charts, even if most people are buying from the middle/bottom. It is pretty basic marketing, but high end GPUs that too the charts prompt a company image and drive sales of affordable models.
 
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