Hillsborough Disaster

BaZ87 · 15 Sep 2012 at 23:41

One thing that I've only just found out about these last couple of days (Hansen mentioning it on motd reminded me to post this) is that the families have had to fund all their own legal fees and private medical reports.

Given the amount of money that's in the game (even back then), the club and players should have put their hands in their pockets and cover all these expenses. I know a lot of past and present players and managers have helped a lot but the families shouldn't have needed to accept these donations. A fraction of a % of all the first team players wages should have gone to them - it would have more than covered their expenses and the players wouldn't have noticed.

One More Solo · 15 Sep 2012 at 23:47

BaZ87 said:
One thing that I've only just found out about these last couple of days (Hansen mentioning it on motd reminded me to post this) is that the families have had to fund all their own legal fees and private medical reports.

Given the amount of money that's in the game (even back then), the club and players should have put their hands in their pockets and cover all these expenses. I know a lot of past and present players and managers have helped a lot but the families shouldn't have needed to accept these donations. A fraction of a % of all the first team players wages should have gone to them - it would have more than covered their expenses and the players wouldn't have noticed.

Heard that on the radio today, quite shocking, though I expect (hope?) there have been some anonymous donations along the way from the club and people like Hansen who are still earning £1m a year by all accounts.

BaZ87 · 15 Sep 2012 at 23:51

As above, I know a lot of people connected to the club have donated a lot of money or helped raise money but it's disappointing to learn that the club didn't formally help.

Jimbeam3678 · 16 Sep 2012 at 00:31

Surely they can reclaim their expenses now though?

After watching Footie focus and MOTD makes me pretty emotional about this as my old old next door neighbour was there and luckily escaped unhurt.

Disgusting what the police etc etc tried to do

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 00:39

I'm not too sure. I hope and expect that when all is said and done, the families will receive massive amounts in damages - not just for the loss of their loved ones but all that's happened since.

It's shocking that on average the Police received £90k odd each for their trauma, yet the families of those that lost their lives, barely received the money to bury them (£3.5k).

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 00:40

oops, double post.

Purdy · 16 Sep 2012 at 00:53

BaZ87 said:
It's shocking that on average the Police received £90k odd each for their trauma, yet the families of those that lost their lives, barely received the money to bury them (£3.5k).

I learnt about that the other day, it just couldn't really make you much angrier could it, anyone of those policemen should be going and offering that to the families, absolutely disgusting they tried to make money out of something where going by pictures and accounts of what happened they did close to nothing to help compared to the real heroes that day.

Robbo · 16 Sep 2012 at 01:35

BaZ87 said:
As above, I know a lot of people connected to the club have donated a lot of money or helped raise money but it's disappointing to learn that the club didn't formally help.

Indeed, that's rather surprising, I wonder why the club didn't formally help?

I'd hope that someone like Gerrard, especially being directly affected by the disaster, chipped in rather a lot of money where possible. It would be a shame to see some of the affected parties using their life savings to get the truth when Gerrard and others earn equivalent amounts in a week or two.

Robbo · 16 Sep 2012 at 11:42

Does anyone read Sport Witness? They just published an article on the various chanting: http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...-bit-of-truth-about-liverpool-and-manchester-

It's slightly abrasive, so don't read it if you're easily annoyed/upset.

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 12:01

What a load of rubbish - it's just another attempt to justify sick chants. This whole "murders" stuff simply referring to Heysel myth (not that using the Hysel disaster and the death of 39 people to score points is acceptable anyway) was put to bed when a large section of Utd's traveling support sung "The Sun was right, you're murderers" at last seasons FA Cup game.

Robbo · 16 Sep 2012 at 12:13

BaZ87 said:
What a load of rubbish - it's just another attempt to justify sick chants. This whole "murders" stuff simply referring to Heysel myth (not that using the Hysel disaster and the death of 39 people to score points is acceptable anyway) was put to bed when a large section of Utd's traveling support sung "The Sun was right, you're murderers" at last seasons FA Cup game.

I thought that might be your reaction, it does go on to explain many of the different chants that are being talked about in some detail though - I wasn't aware of some of them.

They're all terrible though, some people have no class (or intelligence, for that matter).

One More Solo · 16 Sep 2012 at 12:20

Robbo said:
Does anyone read Sport Witness? They just published an article on the various chanting: http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...-bit-of-truth-about-liverpool-and-manchester-

It's slightly abrasive, so don't read it if you're easily annoyed/upset.

Some of his points are extremely flimsy but ultimately Liverpool FC and its fans do have a victim complex (something not unique to their club I might add) on matters beyond Hillsborough. The difference is now is seemingly if anyone dares point it out now then you're going to get "OMG Hillsborough!" regardless of the intention.

Nevertheless I would say this is fair enough to be upset about it because it's ultimately up to the recipient to determine what they are offended by. However, Liverpool fans have been vehemently arguing for the previous 12 months that this is not the case...

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 12:20

I know of a lot of the chants (from both sets of fans) but I stopped reading after he tried to distance yesterdays chants from Hillsborough.

Anybody with half a brain cell knows that this whole Liverpool/victim tag is centred around Hillsborough so whether the chant started after the Suarez/Evra incident or not, it's clearly referring to Hillsborough (the word 'always' in the chant makes it clear that it's referring to more than just the Suarez/Evra incident, if there was any doubt).

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 12:34

One More Solo said:
Some of his points are extremely flimsy but ultimately Liverpool FC and its fans do have a victim complex (something not unique to their club I might add) on matters beyond Hillsborough. The difference is now is seemingly if anyone dares point it out now then you're going to get "OMG Hillsborough!" regardless of the intention.

Nevertheless I would say this is fair enough to be upset about it because it's ultimately up to the recipient to determine what they are offended by. However, Liverpool fans have been vehemently arguing for the previous 12 months that this is not the case...

Could you explain this victim complex beyond Hillsborough and how it differs from any club and it's supporters?

You'll mention the Suarez incident - would it be fair to then say the reaction by Utd and it's fans when Evra was banned (we still hear sarcastic "ban Evra for 4 games" today) for the Chelsea incident is an example of their victim complex? Or when Ferdinand received his drugs ban?

You state that Liverpool are not unique in their victim complex beyond Hillsborough, yet why don't we hear similar chants referring to other clubs victim status? The answer is very easy - because the chants are centred around Hillsborough.

I mentioned yesterday that my opinion of Utd or it's fans isn't altered by chants from a minority of idiots but some of the people digging for excuses for these chants are nearly as bad as those chanting themselves.

If only there were more fans (on both sides) like this guy:

http://audioboo.fm/boos/962156-man-...s-about-hillsborough-chanting-at-old-trafford

Robbo · 16 Sep 2012 at 12:49

Indeed, I completely agree with that guy who was on the radio. I suppose the risk of confronting the kind of scum that sing these songs is that you might get a kicking (I've seen this suggested various places).

hardtarget · 16 Sep 2012 at 13:06

BaZ87 said:
If only there were more fans (on both sides) like this guy:

http://audioboo.fm/boos/962156-man-...s-about-hillsborough-chanting-at-old-trafford

Thank you Francis! I just wish this could some how be played on both Radio City and BBC radio Merseyside some time this week, so that the Liverpool fans can see it was just a few idiots and the rest of the United fans want to watch a game of football between two great sides next Saturday without all the sick chants..............is it that hard!

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 13:12

I think a lot of Liverpool fans knows that already and I've seen some high profile supporters/LFC supporting Journos on twitter make the point. Tony Evans of the Times (he was at Hillsborough) mentioned last night (and many times before) that Utd as a club have conducted themselves very well in regards to Hillsborough ever since it happened. Dalglish also mentioned it in his book.

Purdy · 16 Sep 2012 at 14:13

What an awful article that is Robbo, particularly he's attempt to justify Heysel songs being okay. He knows what it means and tries to take digs at Liverpool in the process.

It's like that Republic of Mancunia site or whatever it's called with it's massive article on why 3 times without murdering anyone is okay. Pretty sure Rio was singing it post match Moscow too

Loki · 16 Sep 2012 at 15:14

BaZ87 said:
As above, I know a lot of people connected to the club have donated a lot of money or helped raise money but it's disappointing to learn that the club didn't formally help.

The problem with this BaZ is that by formally offering to help then that potentially opens the door for litigation by way of accepting liability indirectly for what happened.

BaZ87 · 16 Sep 2012 at 15:23

Liability for what though Loki? Liverpool FC or its supporters have never been charged with anything - it's the families seeking to press charges against the authorities. I'm not sure how Liverpool offering to pay their legal fees could backfire in any way.