Home made pizza

Some bonus sourdough that I thought would be good to try in the pizza oven rather than the usual. Worked OK.
pizza oven envy ... what is it then ? used to have a mate in S. France with a brick one that came with house(maybe even an option), but in the UK not so common.


Hi i have been using a breadmaker for years to make my dough, i make the dough and place in bag and into fridge, then take it out a couple of days later and let sit for a few hours and sometime it is so elastic it just wont stretch, any help on this ?
Thanks
I always use a panasonic option 15, and leave in fridge up to 3 days, if I leave it longer it deteriorates and becomes 'sloppy'/hard to handle(over prooved?), and I will just end up making holes in it, so have to prepare/fire-it on foil;
otherwise I find flexibility doesn't change from when I fridged it, just the taste improves.
 
Surely if it's very elastic it WILL stretch. Do you mean it's too stiff to stretch? What hydration % are you using? What protein % is your flour?
it streches out but pulls back right away, using farina caputo pizzerea red bag flour with these instructions.
320g flour
34g semolina flour
1 1/2 tspn sugar & salt
3.5g yeast
234ml warm water
 
pizza oven envy ... what is it then ? used to have a mate in S. France with a brick one that came with house(maybe even an option), but in the UK not so common.



I always use a panasonic option 15, and leave in fridge up to 3 days, if I leave it longer it deteriorates and becomes 'sloppy'/hard to handle(over prooved?), and I will just end up making holes in it, so have to prepare/fire-it on foil;
otherwise I find flexibility doesn't change from when I fridged it, just the taste improves.
on my panasonic i just select pizza dough and it runs for 45 mins
 
I always do Panasonic dough option 15 which is 2:20 .. never explored pizza dough specific option .. 2:20 is consistant with the 5 hour w/bake cycle time I use on wholewheat bread.
 
it streches out but pulls back right away, using farina caputo pizzerea red bag flour with these instructions.
320g flour
34g semolina flour
1 1/2 tspn sugar & salt
3.5g yeast
234ml warm water
You say you've been doing it for years but have you changed anything about the way you've done it recently?

Seems sensible hydration and that's obvs good flour.

What type of yeast are you using? Pet peeve of mine when recipes don't specify as it's very important!

 
pizza oven envy ... what is it then ? used to have a mate in S. France with a brick one that came with house(maybe even an option), but in the UK not so common.



I always use a panasonic option 15, and leave in fridge up to 3 days, if I leave it longer it deteriorates and becomes 'sloppy'/hard to handle(over prooved?), and I will just end up making holes in it, so have to prepare/fire-it on foil;
otherwise I find flexibility doesn't change from when I fridged it, just the taste improves.
Mine 'came with the house' in that the previous owner had it built. I was a little nervous/sceptical at first because of how many stories you hear about them being built wrong, but I've never had any issues, works brilliantly. The inside of the dome goes nice and white to indicate up to proper temperature, and you can never feel any heat on the outside.

Yes I know it's messy around on the patio, yes I know the fence panels need replacing.

 
then take it out a couple of days later

Could be over proved. I had similar results when doing long fermentation of the entire dough.

Long fermentation is great for bread but I don't see the benefit for pizza, any thing longer than a day starts to taste bad to me and becomes very difficult to ball and stretch.

I've tried a fair few different recipes and have settled on using a poolish.

It brings the added flavour and texture without any of the stretching issues.


This recipe makes one 9-10" pizza

Poolish made 24 hours in advance and stored in fridge.

50g 00 flour with a protein content of at least 10g per 100g
50g cold water
pinch of instant yeast

put everything in a bowl, mix well, cover and refrigerate.

Dough

70g 00 flour
55g very strong bread flour
3-4g salt
3g instant yeast
70g warm water.

Add dry ingredients to a bowl. Add water to the poolish and mix well then add to the dry ingredients. Mix well and knead for 10 mins. Ball the dough on the worktop and cover with a bowl to prove for 2 hours. Degas, fold and reball the dough and allow to prove under a bowl for another hour then it should be ready to use.

A dough scraper will make balling the dough so much easier.
 
Thanks for the recommendations guys I'll look into them, ideally after a 9" peel as that's the size of pizza I tend to make and it can double up as a turner as well.

I'd wanted a pizza oven for ages and initially looked into the Ooni ovens but after a lot of research and the help of the Forno Bravo fourm decided to have a go at building one.

The first challenge was space and size, the reason I was interested in the Ooni oven was it's compact size. I didn't think I had room for a full blown brick built oven, which start around 28" internal size, far to large for my tiny garden. I then found out about cast ovens (not these perlite ones all over youtube, they are bad) which allow for smaller sizes and easier building but there are trade offs.

One of the main points to having a brick oven is so you can use the retained heat after firing for pizza to use as a regular oven. Large ovens can stay hot enough to cook in for several days.
The down side to a smaller oven is less mass so it wont retain heat for nearly as long, as well as fitting less inside. There is also a problem of chimney placement, traditionally the chimney is placed in front of the chamber as this draws hot air around the dome, down then out of the chimney. This circulation of hot air radiates heat onto the floor of the oven which is essential for cooking, especially for pizza.

One plus point of a smaller oven is it heats much quicker and uses far less fuel.

In the end I had to trade off some functionality for size, I wanted to use fire bricks in the built to try and achieve some level of retained heat cooking and went down the unusual route of using fire bricks and clay casting to build an oven with a 22" internal size, about as small as you can go with a brick oven and about as small as you'd want to go for an outside oven.

Starting with the fire bricks. I cut them to shape with a diamond blade on a grinder. Hard work even with the grinder as they are very tough.
Ideally cut with a wet saw as the dust is full of silicate and other nasties, very bad for the lungs.

If it was going to be a full brick build the outer bricks would also need to be bevel cut so they are close fitting to avoid heat loss. As I was using clay I could fill the voids with it and it saved a lot of work.

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I made a base with concrete blocks which I plan on cladding later to smarten up. The oven then sits on 4.5" of insulation. Consisting of a insulated cement board, perlite/cement mix, and finally 1" of calcium silicate board. This floor insulation is critical, if not used heat loss through the floor bricks would make the oven practically useless. (this is one of the reasons why the perlite youtube ovens fail)

The outer fired bricks of the oven are set in place with a clay, lime, stainless steel reinforcing needles and cement mix. This is also the same mixture that will create the dome.
I started on the mould for the dome with polystyrene and sand

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With the dome mould done and the chimney temporarily in place, I covered it in cling film so I can use it while casting the dome to get a perfect fit.
First trade off of this small oven design, I brought the chimney as far forward as possible, ideally it would be further forward for the reasons mentioned above but the oven size limited this.
Will have to wait and see how it performs.

E9esdTi.jpg

The sand dome mould was then covered in newspaper and 3" of the clay mix was compacted over it. once the clay mix was dry enough the sand/polystyrene can be removed leaving the formed dome set in place.

a3r80Cj.jpg

The whole oven was then covered with 2" of ceramic fibre insulation blanket, another critical step to help retain heat.

A71r2eH.jpg

The blanket was then covered with a perlite, vermiculite, lime, reinforcing needle, cement mix to add strength and a further layer of insulation.

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And this is where the project came to a halt. It was no where near finished but was nearly at the stage where it could be used. It had been a few months work up to this point and my enthusiasm was starting to dwindle, It had been much harder work than I had anticipated and the stresses of the pandemic and lock down where starting to show on myself and family.

So I wrapped the project up and took a step back.

Fortunately because of the amount of cement and thus water in the build it would take many months before it was dry enough to fire up.
You can dry them out faster by starting small controlled fires but there is a risk of heating the dome too fast tuning all that water to steam, cracking the dome which potentially could cause huge heat loss issues. I needed a break and was happy to wait a few months for it to dry naturally, that few months turned into nearly 2 years.

My interest was sparked again when a friend recently got an Ooni and was telling me about it, I'm really glad it has. It's great fun firing up the oven with a beer and it does make excellent pizza.

I've had a busy weekend and made a indoor pizza and the difference is huge.
Thankfully it seems to be performing well too. It does take at least 1 hour to get the floor bricks up to pizza cooking temp but I don't think that's to bad, I char the peppers and cook the toppings in that time.

In hindsight if I where to build it again I would lengthen the entrance to bring the chimney forward and reduce the dome height by a couple of inches. that would help to heat the floor slightly quicker.

It also seems to be retaining heat well. I made a quick door and cover for the chimney and the next morning after making pizza the oven was still hot enough to cook in, though I suspect I'll only get 24 hours max out of it. Trade off for it's size but I'm happy with that.
I've cooked a banana loaf and pancakes the next morning.

All that's left is to make a proper door and chimney plug and make the thing look respectable :)

I plan to clad the lower base, maybe with tiles or stone and cover the whole dome in a mosaic style
Something like this

dyf7Ymx.jpg

I might get it finished in the next 2 years :)
You could take those too market
 
Got an Ooni pizza ingredients kit for my birthday and the taste of the tomato sauce was an absolute revelation, I didn't appreciate the difference a good one can make. I was previously just using passata but feel that in the sieving process it must be removing some of the flavour.

What are people current using for their tomato bases? Just some good tinned?
 
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