Only if you have a smart meter, but there is no legal requirement to get one and it doesn't have to actually work as a "smart meter".
Easy to game a system like that. Just tell the tax man you work at an office even if you never go there.
How would pay per mile car tax work?
- Thread starter neocon
- Start date
Only if you have a smart meter, but there is no legal requirement to get one and it doesn't have to actually work as a "smart meter".
Easy to game a system like that. Just tell the tax man you work at an office even if you never go there.
You’d be rather shouting yourself in the foot by doing that though...as your business mileage to that location would no longer be tax deductible....
All but the most obvious ways of doing this can be easily bypassed except one.
Using the vehicles software - can likely just be coded out of its a U.K. only thing.
Meeter the charger - just plug it in from an unmetered source. Or just swap the charger for a dumb one. The charger is the cheap but these days compared to the install cost. Most people can charge from a 13a 99% of the time and it would be fine.
Recording mileage at MOTs, the records can be easily faked, it will also discourage people from getting their MOT on time or at all. Or they’ll get to know a friendly tester as people do now for other issues.
The one easy thing that will work and take very little effort is to just tax the car at the point of purchase or increase the annual VED. Job jobbed. Why not also apply it to ICE too at the same time, keeps the EV incentive up then. They’ll not do it though as it will likely lower new car purchases.
Fuel duty isn’t going away any time soon anyway. It’s only just starting to impact in Norway and their EV sales are relatively huge compared to ours and have been for years.
Using the vehicles software - can likely just be coded out of its a U.K. only thing.
Meeter the charger - just plug it in from an unmetered source. Or just swap the charger for a dumb one. The charger is the cheap but these days compared to the install cost. Most people can charge from a 13a 99% of the time and it would be fine.
Recording mileage at MOTs, the records can be easily faked, it will also discourage people from getting their MOT on time or at all. Or they’ll get to know a friendly tester as people do now for other issues.
The one easy thing that will work and take very little effort is to just tax the car at the point of purchase or increase the annual VED. Job jobbed. Why not also apply it to ICE too at the same time, keeps the EV incentive up then. They’ll not do it though as it will likely lower new car purchases.
Fuel duty isn’t going away any time soon anyway. It’s only just starting to impact in Norway and their EV sales are relatively huge compared to ours and have been for years.
Soldato
According to report by the AA one proposal is to use an average speed camera type system so they know where you were driving and when so the value charged can be varied by the weight of traffic. Of course you can clone another cars registration number but that’s quite extreme. And as everywhere will be an average speed check zone speeding fines revenues will likely go up.
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
- Posts
- 9,315
Not sure how feasible that is, surely fitting cameras everywhere is going to be far more expensive. I say this as I use a lot of b roads, and tbh even the a roads I go on don't have any cameras on.
Soldato
It’s actually relatively cheap. About £90K per camera. They’re solar powered and use PTP data so only the first one needs a landline connection. But more importantly they are a very good enforcement tool. They’re very hard to evade and from personal experience roads with average speed cameras tend to flow better. Not as fast as the theoretical speed limit but you don’t get that bunching up and in a NSL/A-road with a 60mph limit you can save up some 50mph average behind the truck for the 75mph overtake before the next camera. If your sat-nav doesn’t do average speed in a zone then you need to upgrade.
I guess by definition this feeds into a free road/toll road scenario though? As you cannot hope to camera every single road, track and lane? The fears with this is that it forces traffic onto substandard non optimal routes to avoid the tolls, you see this in France with their toll autoroutes as well as here in Birmingham with the M6 constantly bottlenecked while the toll remains a race track...
Soldato
I don’t know. Possibly but I suspect they’ll shut down any rat runs quickly. They won’t want to miss out on any revenue and most communities actively lobby for vehicle speed controls, so I don’t think you’ll find many folks upset if they install average speed/ANPR cameras in their area.
90k but it would have to be at the entrance and exits of every single road, so all the junctions too lol. Then councils would have to be constantly repairing/replacing them due to them being trashed by locals. Much like rural speed cameras (most of these don't actually work, they get the lens damaged right after installation).
Plate cloning would also go through the roof. As would things which obscure the plate from cameras. On rural roads it's very unlikely you'd ever get caught.
Last edited:
Soldato
You paint a picture of the UK being like the Wild West populated by criminal tax avoiders. That could be the case in Canary Wharf but I think in Norfolk most folks just leave the speed cameras alone and pay tax.
One of the working papers talks about mounting the cameras on traffic lights, so those folks seem to envisage it will be widespread. Remember the government needs to do some pretty radical stuff to get the carbon neutral figures sorted and I don’t think there is a great deal of downside to camera controlled road pricing.
You ever met farmers? 
I have a friend who had a speed camera right outside his house in rural Bedfordshire. Almost every other week there was a council man there repairing it. As soon as he left it got vandalised again. There is no risk for the people doing it. The locals either don't care or know who it is, but don't want to grass them up.
I have a friend who had a speed camera right outside his house in rural Bedfordshire. Almost every other week there was a council man there repairing it. As soon as he left it got vandalised again. There is no risk for the people doing it. The locals either don't care or know who it is, but don't want to grass them up.
Last edited:
Soldato
Funny you should mention that. Yes. I have. 
The google oracle, is not showing any cases of mileage blocking on tesla, or connected ev cars, yet, so that should be the final post, ICEage solution, with tiered tax, based on miles.
people will want confidence/warranty on the ev batteries anyway, if you had an ev that had false battery record that will become more concerning, given their relative cost versus a reconned engine, if, most of the cells are dieing;
Test driving a 2nd hand ev to see it's m/KWh will become a thing.
people will want confidence/warranty on the ev batteries anyway, if you had an ev that had false battery record that will become more concerning, given their relative cost versus a reconned engine, if, most of the cells are dieing;
Test driving a 2nd hand ev to see it's m/KWh will become a thing.
Underboss
thread revive as this is now going to happen it seems
and i have read, anyone doing under 3000 miles a year pay nothing
and i thought it was supposed to make EV owners pay some tax on this ?
I bet most EV owners do under 3000
and i have read, anyone doing under 3000 miles a year pay nothing
and i thought it was supposed to make EV owners pay some tax on this ?
I bet most EV owners do under 3000
Is it? According to who? Completely missed this in the news
They would need to have a black box installed.
Tbh most other countries in the world operate on similar schemes.
You have a basic taxation system on number plating or at the point of vehicle purchase.
The the on going cost of ownership is for usage of certain roads - “toll”.
Personally I don’t understand why UK citizens nowadays are so incomprehensibly inept at understand the concept.
Our roads used to have tolls once up on a time and in fact such road is function in current era - M6/dartford crossing/severn crossing (used to be until recently).
Last edited:
Underboss
'Great deal' of petrol and diesel owners set to save money under new tax
EXCLUSIVE: Petrol and diesel owners could make hefty savings if a new pay-per-mile car tax road pricing concept was introduced across the UK.
www.express.co.uk
not sure how i can read it on my phone , via my Samsung news screen , its blocked otherwise, as im not paying to read it
Attachments
Last edited:
My advice is to stop getting 'news' from the express.
Your joking right? The more miles you do, the more more an EV makes sense (to a point) not the other way round.
In terms of a pay by mile scheme, I wouldn't think ICE cars will get off free either, they will need to maintain the gap in terms of taxation to maintain the incentive to get them off the roads. Either way its an incredibly expensive way of collecting a fuel duty replacement. Think about it, 10's of companies pay fuel duty over to the government, there are 30 million cars on the roads set to pay a few hundred each.
Some explanation is needed here. As far as I am aware, only 2 countries in the world operate a pay by mile scheme. Iceland and New Zealand.
Your joking right? The more miles you do, the more more an EV makes sense (to a point) not the other way round.
In terms of a pay by mile scheme, I wouldn't think ICE cars will get off free either, they will need to maintain the gap in terms of taxation to maintain the incentive to get them off the roads. Either way its an incredibly expensive way of collecting a fuel duty replacement. Think about it, 10's of companies pay fuel duty over to the government, there are 30 million cars on the roads set to pay a few hundred each.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
Nothing there says it's going to be introduced, just looks like a journalists click baity thoughts on what would happen if it was.
Much like their usual "every driver in the UK will die TOMORROW! Unless they know this" style crap.
Much like their usual "every driver in the UK will die TOMORROW! Unless they know this" style crap.
Last edited:
Underboss