Hungarian Grand Prix 2010, Hungaroring Circuit - Race 12/19

sunama · 29 Jul 2010 at 10:51

Setroc said:
With 8 races to go, and McLaren pushed back into a clear 3rd position in terms of car performance,

Based on the last race, you are correct in that McLaren are 3rd right now. However, I wouldnt count on this being the case for long. What compromised McLaren is what happened in Silverstone - they couldve stuck with their new car to speed development. Instead they reverted back to their old car for the race, to ensure a stronger placing, for that race.

My belief is that they will be stronger (than in Germany), in Hungary and then will be on par with Ferrari in the race after that.

You are right though - if Hamilton were to have a DNF or a bad race, he could suddenly find himself in 2nd (or lower).

NathanE · 29 Jul 2010 at 11:42

I don't think McLaren will be competitive again until they've researched and built a flexible front wing.

pingwing · 29 Jul 2010 at 11:57

NathanE said:
a flexible front wing.

Which currently doesnt exists on the other cars...

McLaren need to refine their blown diffuser thing or head for the simpler one as the Renult engine management thing doesnt sound like something Merc want to crank out for half the grid just yet....

TaKeN · 29 Jul 2010 at 12:00

NathanE said:
I don't think McLaren will be competitive again until they've researched and built a flexible front wing.

Good job there's a three week break after this race then?

**** for the fans. But hopefully Mclaren will pull something out.

NathanE · 29 Jul 2010 at 12:20

pingwing said:
Which currently doesnt exists on the other cars...

McLaren need to refine their blown diffuser thing or head for the simpler one as the Renult engine management thing doesnt sound like something Merc want to crank out for half the grid just yet....

Personally I think the whole "special engine map that aids the BDD" theory is bull crap.

NathanE · 29 Jul 2010 at 12:23

TaKeN said:
Good job there's a three week break after this race then?

**** for the fans. But hopefully Mclaren will pull something out.

I guess their carbon composite guys will be getting some homework titled "how to best exploit aeroelasticity in carbon composite materials, in 3 weeks".

dannyjo22 · 29 Jul 2010 at 13:03

Setroc said:
That's a pretty bold statement. There's a 15 point difference between finishing 1st and finishing 5th. With 8 races to go, and McLaren pushed back into a clear 3rd position in terms of car performance, it's going to be tough to defend his 20 point lead over the Red Bulls or the 30 point lead over Alonso.

Don't get me wrong, he is not in a bad position for the WDC, but it's going to take a lot more than just no DNFs to hang on to it.

Even when the faster cars are gettiung pole, Hamilton is still extending his lead. I don't think Ferrari will feature and from the 3 Mclaren is by far the most reliable.

Red Bull maybe faster but it's fragile, one problem after another. The Ferrari hasn't been that great either. How many engines does alonso have left?

There will still be tracks where the Macca is quickest and when they are not they are still picking up excellent points. The others keep throwing them away.

NathanE said:
Personally I think the whole "special engine map that aids the BDD" theory is bull crap.

They certainly have something different between qually and the race.

dannyjo22 · 29 Jul 2010 at 13:04

NathanE said:
I guess their carbon composite guys will be getting some homework titled "how to best exploit aeroelasticity in carbon composite materials, in 3 weeks".

They all know how to do it, they had flexi wings before. I think it's good for red bull that other teams keep wasting their time, investigating smoke and mirrors.

Blown Diffusers, variable ride height and now flexi wings. They all flex already and the red bull has passed flex tests.

Newey must be laughing his bits off.

NathanE · 29 Jul 2010 at 13:13

dannyjo22 said:
They all know how to do it, they had flexi wings before.

I know

Last time McLaren had it was the "bridge wing" on the 2008 championship car. Though half way through the season the FIA banned flexible bridge wings and McLaren had to strengthen it with a little prop stand.

People were analysing the video footage in the exact same way as they are now. It's funny how the FIA banned those but has ruled these new ones are legal

I remember first noticing the flexing RBR front wing in Australia. It was just a mental note at the time of "man that wing flexes so much more than anyone elses". Didn't really think much more of it.

dannyjo22 · 29 Jul 2010 at 13:33

I guess the mclaren ones failed the stress test. When one snaps off I assume they will get banned again

OT did you drive through Willingham last week? A Lotus the same as the one in your sig did and they aren't all that common.

Glaucus · 29 Jul 2010 at 13:37

There's a diffrence between test and track, may pass test but still flex. But through video and stuff deemed illegal and flex test changed. Isn't that what happened to ferraris chassis?
Secondly I don't think fia has deemed them legal as such. No one had contested them. Mclaren have said instead of contesting they will just copy.

Duke · 29 Jul 2010 at 14:33

Good preview here

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/07/...lise-on-their-advantage-hungarian-gp-preview/

NathanE · 29 Jul 2010 at 14:42

AcidHell2 said:
There's a diffrence between test and track, may pass test but still flex. But through video and stuff deemed illegal and flex test changed. Isn't that what happened to ferraris chassis?
Secondly I don't think fia has deemed them legal as such. No one had contested them. Mclaren have said instead of contesting they will just copy.

Despite a bit of wrangling near the start of the season. The teams have been remarkly well spirited this year when it comes to protestings other teams cars.

This is a nice change from recent years IMO.

dannyjo22 · 29 Jul 2010 at 15:19

AcidHell2 said:
There's a diffrence between test and track, may pass test but still flex. But through video and stuff deemed illegal and flex test changed. Isn't that what happened to ferraris chassis?
Secondly I don't think fia has deemed them legal as such. No one had contested them. Mclaren have said instead of contesting they will just copy.

No they passed the tests before but still flexed significantly. So they upped the loading. The only way to messure the flex is under load, videos with a moving car are vey hard to prove accurately.

They will either all make them closer to the limit or the load will be increased again.

This is further evidence for me why F1 needs a standard front and rear wing that all cars have to run in one of three format. Low Medium or High downforce. The amount of money wasted of wing design for a 10th of a second is beyond stupid. With little or no bearing on road car design it's pointless.

Glaucus · 29 Jul 2010 at 15:25

dannyjo22 said:
This is further evidence for me why F1 needs a standard front and rear wing that all cars have to run in one of three format. Low Medium or High downforce. The amount of money wasted of wing design for a 10th of a second is beyond stupid. With little or no bearing on road car design it's pointless.

But only if they totally unrestrict engine and other development. Although I still don't see the need for standard wings. just make it much smaller with more rules. Whilst totally derstricting other areas. Ban on engine development is crazy, this is formula one and now there is no refuelling. There is no need for restrictions. the quantity of fuel will limit BHP and top speed.

This is not a same car series, and standard parts should be few and far between. But we do need less downforce, more mechanical grip and engines with enough power to break traction, chuck the rear end out and not be able to go flat out round corners.

FIa should just say if it passes scrutineering, then it is legal. Or if there are loop holes like double diffuser/f-duct. then again it is legal. Which to be fair they have been doing the last couple of seasons.

JRS · 29 Jul 2010 at 15:26

dannyjo22 said:
This is further evidence for me why F1 needs a standard front and rear wing that all cars have to run in one of three format. Low Medium or High downforce. The amount of money wasted of wing design for a 10th of a second is beyond stupid. With little or no bearing on road car design it's pointless.

I'm fine with that, provided it's no longer called "Formula One".

Duke · 29 Jul 2010 at 16:04

"Massa: I'm not a number two driver" LOL.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85628

CaptainRAVE · 29 Jul 2010 at 16:06

Duke said:
"Massa: I'm not a number two driver" LOL.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85628

lol, keep telling yourself that Massa

sunama · 29 Jul 2010 at 16:17

"He said he had received assurances from Ferrari that he was still allowed to fight for victories for himself."

Maybe he genuinely has been given assurances by Ferrari that in light of the furore of the last weekend, they can no longer Massa to move aside for Alonso. Only time will tell of course, but perhaps Ferrari may switch Massa and Alonso around, using other techniques, eg. during the pit stops.

I find it difficult to believe that Ferrari will allow Massa to take points away from Alonso, given that they have to get Alonso to pick up as many '25 point' hauls as possible...but who knows what has been agreed, behind closed doors.

dannyjo22 · 29 Jul 2010 at 16:21

AcidHell2 said:
But only if they totally unrestrict engine and other development. Although I still don't see the need for standard wings. just make it much smaller with more rules. Whilst totally derstricting other areas. Ban on engine development is crazy, this is formula one and now there is no refuelling. There is no need for restrictions. the quantity of fuel will limit BHP and top speed.

This is not a same car series, and standard parts should be few and far between. But we do need less downforce, more mechanical grip and engines with enough power to break traction, chuck the rear end out and not be able to go flat out round corners.

FIa should just say if it passes scrutineering, then it is legal. Or if there are loop holes like double diffuser/f-duct. then again it is legal. Which to be fair they have been doing the last couple of seasons.

I guess it's for another thread, originally I was against the engine freeze, I can still see lots of arguments against it. Then another part of me says it's benn brilliant for the lower teams. Without an engine freeze you wouldn't be seeing a brawn win the title or a red bull be anything other than a midfield team. Even right now you would be seeing mclaren struggle. In the time before the engine freeze tier 2 on the engine supply pretty much always got screwed.

Mclaren would currently be a tier 2 team and you can bet they wouldn't be getting the same bits as Mercedes. They would get a customer engine at the start of the year and left floundering after that. As would red bull with renault.

The engine freeze has allowed 'lesser' teams to contribute, although I understand the 500 arguments against it.

JRS said:
I'm fine with that, provided it's no longer called "Formula One".

Front and rear wing technology brings little to the sport but costs millions. It has no bearing on road car use and I'd much rather have a standard wing than an overtaking wing that we are likely to get. Atleast it would allow them to control the level of aero grip to a degree.