Hungarian Grand Prix 2010, Hungaroring Circuit - Race 12/19

[dannyjo22]

I find it difficult to believe that Ferrari will allow Massa to take points away from Alonso, given that they have to get Alonso to pick up as many '25 point' hauls as possible...but who knows what has been agreed, behind closed doors.

He's deluded beyond belief.

When asked what would happen if he was faced with the same situation this weekend, Massa replied: "I will win."

No they won't, they will pit him with a suspected problem. they won't go to the effort one week of having him passed only to them not take the points back the following week.

The whole autosport article leaves me pitying him. None of it has any truth or bearing considering what we just saw. The only way he has a chance is to outqualify alonso and pull out a gap on him of 10 seconds where Alonso cannot catch him with cars inbetween.

Other than that Alonso wins.

Even if Massa hasn't got a no2 contract, Alonso has one to say he's the no1.

 

[Glaucus]

With a wmsc I can't see Ferrari doing anything, not even a bodged pit stop. It is to risky to inflame the situation further.

 

[sunama]

Even if Massa hasn't got a no2 contract, Alonso has one to say he's the no1.

Definitely.

Especially, after what happened at McLaren. Alonso said he had a verbal understanding with McLaren that they would treat and respect him for being a World Champ. Unfortunately for him, nothing was written down. In actuality, he was not given preferential treatment. This frustrated him...big time.

I can't believe that Alonso would then go and sign with Ferrari and make the same mistake...odds are that he has a written agreement regarding his No.1 status. This would also explain the reason why he gets frustrated everytime Massa gets in his way. His thinking is probably, "Tell Massa to get out of my way, I am No.1!!!" It would also explain the ruthless manner in which he overtook Massa, coming into the pit-lane at one of the earlier races.

 

[sunama]

BTW. does anybody know the reason why Massa was pulling away from Alonso in Germany, at an alarming rate (circa 0.5s/lap+), before Alonso started reeling him back in?

It just seemed odd to me that Massa would be able to pull out such a gap, so quickly and then allow Alonso to close in on him, just as quickly.

 

[sunama]

With a wmsc I can't see Ferrari doing anything, not even a bodged pit stop. It is to risky to inflame the situation further.

You would think that wouldn't you.

The statement issued by Montezemollo was almost disdainful towards the FIA. Almost as if it say, "We are doing what we think is right. Other teams have done it in the past and we shall continue doing what ever we think is right."

Only time will tell whether or not Ferrari continue as they did in Germany.

 

[dannyjo22]

With a wmsc I can't see Ferrari doing anything, not even a bodged pit stop. It is to risky to inflame the situation further.

Fair point, they will get Schumacher to oversee the tyre stop and hide one like he did to Irvine

BTW. does anybody know the reason why Massa was pulling away from Alonso in Germany, at an alarming rate (circa 0.5s/lap+), before Alonso started reeling him back in?

It just seemed odd to me that Massa would be able to pull out such a gap, so quickly and then allow Alonso to close in on him, just as quickly.

I'm in two minds, either Alonso backed off while a conversation was going on. Or he was saving his tyres from getting wrecked after how long the final stint was. He was following closely for so long his tyres must have been hurting.

Or for a few laps massa put his all into it and couldn't keep up the pace.

Personally I reckon some negotiation was going on, so Alonso held off for a few laps.

 

[Dimi]

BBC F1 analyst Martin Brundle: "Well, you can see why they're waiting, Massa has just done two fastest laps and he's pulled the gap over Alonso out to more than two seconds."

BBC Radio 5 live F1 analyst Anthony Davidson: "Backing off is a trait of Alonso's driving - he does it to find out how fast his car is in clean air."

 

[Glaucus]

That's because r5l are professionals, BBC is blundering idiots. Most people think Brundle is good, but compare him to r5l team it is shameful. If I watch it live it nearly always gets put on red button to r5l comentrey.

 

[Dimi]

Pat Fry

 

[sunama]

BBC Radio 5 live F1 analyst Anthony Davidson: "Backing off is a trait of Alonso's driving - he does it to find out how fast his car is in clean air."

Aaaah. That would make sense.

 

[arknor]

Front and rear wing technology brings little to the sport but costs millions. It has no bearing on road car use and I'd much rather have a standard wing than an overtaking wing that we are likely to get. Atleast it would allow them to control the level of aero grip to a degree.

more than half the grid dont make cars so couldnt care less

lotus (is it actually owned by lotus?)
Mclaren , sort of
ferrari do.
mercedes gp do.
renault do
force india dont.
williams dont
redbull dont.
BMW sauber f1 team dont (its not bmw anymore is it)
toro rosso dont
HRT dont even make there f1 car lol
virgin dont

formula one has little bearing on road car use even for the teams that do make road cars something honda complained about a lot

 

[sunama]

During meetings on rule changes, teams often argue about the reason why there should not be a cap on spending or that certain car parts should be permitted. A major part of their reasoning is, "We want to do develop this system for use in road cars".

For the above reason, developing a technology in F1, to be later transferred over to road cars, is VERY important.

Another big reason used is, "To go green". I believe this was the reason why KERS was brought in. Even though teams are not using KERS, the FIA have not banned the KERS device. The FIA is very much trying to make F1 cheaper to get in to and is keen to give F1 a greener image.

 

[Glaucus]

trouble is fia snd to sn extent the teams are fighting against progress.

Kers is and can be used in road cars as well as other industries. yet they totally restrict it's use and development. Meaning F1 can no longer be used as a platform to research, design and devlope these systems.

GReen means using less fuel, but agin they say the engine has to be x-litre and be turboed, with x valves, x-rpm so on and so forth. Again it destroys any devlopment usefull for other industries.

Same can be said for pretty much all c omponents.
Now if they said design kers, it has to start with no energy. You can decide how much it charges, how much bhp increase and how long you can hold the button for. Not only would it be greener, it would have proper research and devlopment usefull to other industries.

Same with engine, you have x-litres, make what ever engine you want, with any forced air system yyou want. Again usefull advances, whilst being far greener, again usefull outside of f1.

At the moment they spend 10's-100's of illions on aero, which have almost no gains. Further restrict ao, but not standard parts, smaller wings and less winglets.

If they did those 3 things it would be
1) greener
2 bring back what F1 is about
3) more profitable as industries will invest to test and develop there systems.
4) better racing, less aero, more mechanical grip and more BHP to test the drivers.

and look at other systems
hdrogen/electric or what ever. research a safe system for the "fuel" set up tests and include it in the rules. I doubt anyone would enter one for a few years, but you can bet your behind loads of companies would invest millions into research. Just look at le-mans alternative fuel. Could you imagine a company entering an electric car and winning first season, the wealth and sales they would generate.
Torque all though the power range, no gears, lower centre of gravity, more reliable. Just have to sort battery or fuel cell out.

 

[sunama]

If they did those 3 things it would be
1) greener
2 bring back what F1 is about
3) more profitable as industries will invest to test and develop there systems.
4) better racing, less aero, more mechanical grip and more BHP to test the drivers.

Some very valid points. Especially the one highlighted in bold.

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

more than half the grid dont make cars so couldnt care less

lotus (is it actually owned by lotus?)
Mclaren , sort of
ferrari do.
mercedes gp do.
renault do
force india dont.
williams dont
redbull dont.
BMW sauber f1 team dont (its not bmw anymore is it)
toro rosso dont
HRT dont even make there f1 car lol
virgin dont

formula one has little bearing on road car use even for the teams that do make road cars something honda complained about a lot

Williams do have some bearing on Road cars though, Porsche have partnered up with Williams, to develop Williams' Flywheel KERS System into something that can be used in road cars, and the 911 GT3 R Hybrid is the test bed for this.

 

[Glaucus]

Williams do have some bearing on Road cars though, Porsche have partnered up with Williams, to develop Williams' Flywheel KERS System into something that can be used in road cars, and the 911 GT3 R Hybrid is the test bed for this.

but how much, kers has so many restrictions on it, bhp, time ect. It's the reason loads of companies aren't themselfs at it, it is far to restricted and for what reason? there is only so much energy you can recover from braking, the more you recover the more unstable the car is.

Some very valid points. Especially the one highlighted in bold.

As I've said before the only reason people invest in F1 is advertisment. This never use to be the case, pre mid 90's. Just look at the massive amounts of devlopments, just look at the williams car which never ran, was 95's? with the variable always in sync gearbox, active suspension and the rest, before that, you had loads of companys investing in engines. Or other electronics, which are know used in road cars.

 

[NightSt@lk3r]

but how much, kers has so many restrictions on it, bhp, time ect. It's the reason loads of companies aren't themselfs at it, it is far to restricted and for what reason? there is only so much energy you can recover from braking, the more you recover the more unstable the car is.

Porsche let Autocar loose with it awhile back, take a look, it only takes one big stop to fully recharge it and with 2 independent motors driving the front wheels delivers and extra 160HP, a friend of mine who drove it in the Nurbergring 24hrs also told me that in the wet it is a great system for getting front end grip on the exit of corners.

 

[mmj_uk]

BTW. does anybody know the reason why Massa was pulling away from Alonso in Germany, at an alarming rate (circa 0.5s/lap+), before Alonso started reeling him back in?

It just seemed odd to me that Massa would be able to pull out such a gap, so quickly and then allow Alonso to close in on him, just as quickly.

Didn't Massa lose a lot of time in traffic just before he was told he had to move over? I remember Brundle commenting that traffic had allowed Alonso to close the gap to him because Massa seemed to catch the tail enders in all the wrong places.

 

[arknor]

Williams do have some bearing on Road cars though, Porsche have partnered up with Williams, to develop Williams' Flywheel KERS System into something that can be used in road cars, and the 911 GT3 R Hybrid is the test bed for this.

they didnt design it thinking it would ever be used in a road car though and its still beeing designed outside of f1 so is irelevant!

 

[Glaucus]

That porche uses electric not flywheel, so don't get how it's a test bed.
It's also using f1 type system. f1 is 80ish bhp for 6 seconds. That appears to be 160bhp for 3 seconds. So is already as good as an F1 system can legally go, so any further development will be outside of f1.

It only charges relatively fast, because the power and length of charge is short.