Hungarian Grand Prix 2010, Hungaroring Circuit - Race 12/19

Forget all that why can't you just admit when you are wrong when you make a statement about webber being good for one race then failing. It would save you a lot of time digging up irrelevant stats that still don't prove you are right when clearly the record book says you're wrong :confused:

The facts are that we have had 12 races.
RBR have the best car, so potentially, with the right driver piloting the vehicle can win all the races (or at least share the wins with Vettel).

I stated originally that Webber doesnt have consistency.

12 races
6 podium positions
6 non-podium positions.

He has had 1 DNF which was his fault. He has had the best luck of all the top runners this year. Yet he has an average record. Vettel on the other hand has 2 race wins taken away from him, without it being his fault and is still right up there with Webber.

Enough said.
 
If Webber won the driver's championship, how would he be regarded? As a great, or more like JV?

I think he would be the later, whereas Vettel would not.
 
The problem with Webber is that he does well in 1 race and then he vanishes in the following race..

Please just say you was wrong, just this once instead of repeating different stats over and over to try to convince others and yourself you was right.

He has had 1 DNF which was his fault. He has had the best luck of all the top runners this year. Yet he has an average record. Vettel on the other hand has 2 race wins taken away from him, without it being his fault and is still right up there with Webber.

Enough said.

No not enough said. I will ask one question to see if you can answer it without turning into a politician.

Q.

The problem with Webber is that he does well in 1 race and then he vanishes in the following race..

For 100 points is that statement true?

I await your waffling reply and endless stats to dodge a simple question, I don't want to hear about vettel. I just want an answer to the question :)
 
If Webber won the driver's championship, how would he be regarded? As a great, or more like JV?

There was nothing wrong with JV. He just wouldn't listen to advice to ditch his manager and made a very poor career decision. Wheel to wheel he could beat anyone. When he had the best car he delivered, you can't ask anymore than that.

He was also willing to go toe to toe with any driver in the paddock in any team.

He should have made better car choices but he didn't. JV is vastly superior to a driver like webber.
 
I loved watching JV race, it was a shame he ended/wasted his F1 career with BAR.

His manager was the biggest problem. When I helped out on one of the bigger F1 websites I was shown some very good emails and conversations from various big teams in f1. Williams and Mclaren both wanted to take him away from BAR but only if he got rid of pillock.

Its easy to be critical and say he should have taken the drive and ditched Pollock but pollock got his career started and was kind of a father to him.

It's easy to say he should have ditched him like lewis did his old man but I imagine it's different growing up when your high profile father has died.

BAR was a huge gamble he didn't need to take, but everyone wanted Honda for 99 and expected the kind of engines they had delivered in previous years.
 
Honda was a MASSIVE name in F1 during the late 80s and early 90s.

I remember when McLaren won their 5 titles in the row. It was Honda who were powering McLaren and Honda were investing huge amounts. This period also included a year when McLaren won 15 out of 16 races. Yes...you read that right.

I remember in 1991 (or 1992) I think it was. Renault were all the rage and were leading in terms of engine power. Honda found this unacceptable so brought around 4 different types of engines (2 race spec engines and 2 qualifying spec engines) to try out. This is a far cry from the situation as it is today, where there is a single type of engine and a single engine has to last the driver approximately 3 full race weekends.

I have to be honest, but I loved it when the big boys used to pull out all the stops to be No.1.
 
I remember when McLaren won their 5 titles in the row. It was Honda who were powering McLaren and Honda were investing huge amounts.

When was that then, sunama?

McLaren were constructors champions four times in a row from '88 to '91, their drivers winning the title in each of those years. Either side of that period, Piquet and Williams were champions in '87 and Mansell and Williams were champions in '92. McLaren also had three drivers championships in a row from '84 to '86 including two constructors titles, but that was using the TAG Porsche engine.

So yes, still impressive. But definitely not five-in-a-row impressive, for that you have to go take a look at Maranello and the boys from the Scuderia.
 
Oh dear now you have done it, you will get a whole page of stats on Senna, Prost and Mclaren without a simple admission of getting it wrong :D

I love how he doesn't just spend two minutes checking up on something before posting, especially when he knows what I'm like with F1 historical stats....

Funnily enough I didn't get a reply to my simple question :p

You really expected one? :D
 
McLaren were constructors champions four times in a row from '88 to '91, their drivers winning the title in each of those years.

Aaaah. I stand corrected 4 times in a row, not 5 times in a row.

The point is that Honda were a huge force to be reckoned with and invested a lot of money into ensuring they had the best engine.
 
Funnily enough I didn't get a reply to my simple question :p

I answered you many times.

Webber: he'll do great in 1 race and then vanish the following race. Then he'll come back strong in another race and then vanish again in a subsequent race.

Vettel is more consistent.
 
Webber: he'll do great in 1 race and then vanish the following race. Then he'll come back strong in another race and then vanish again in a subsequent race.

Honest to god I'm not sure if your pulling my leg.


Anyway amazing to think people thought this was dangerous back in the day. These sorts of moves can happen because both drivers left a cars width both time.

 
Vettel is more consistent.

But also a lot more immature e.g. his constant wanting to do fastest laps and inability to conserve is car. Reminds me of Hamilton when he wanted to win races at any cost. It subsequently cost him the championship and I can see the same happening to Vettel. I don't think there is much between Vettel and Webber.
 
to be fair webber is leading the championship so he is currently the most consistant driver, its clear he is the 2nd driver so to still be coming out on top i think that shows a lot

my opinion of course
 
That wasnt dangerous. Prost and Senna can handle that sort of close racing.
But wasnt it great to see the car behind able to run so close to the car in front?
 
to be fair webber is leading the championship so he is currently the most consistant driver, its clear he is the 2nd driver so to still be coming out on top i think that shows a lot

my opinion of course

Webber has had no bad "luck".

Vettel has had a car break down on him, while leading.
His car also let him down in the opening GP, demoting him from 1st place (which is where he was running before his car slowed down), to 4th.

If you tot those points up, Vettel would've been leading his team-mate.

Its remarkable that Webber has not had any car failures yet. He had 1 DNF, but that was his own fault.

Over the course of the full season, the luck, usually evens itself out, but at this stage, Vettel's earlier car failures are costing him dear.
 
Webber has had no bad "luck".

Vettel has had a car break down on him, while leading.
His car also let him down in the opening GP, demoting him from 1st place (which is where he was running before his car slowed down), to 4th.

If you tot those points up, Vettel would've been leading his team-mate.

Its remarkable that Webber has not had any car failures yet. He had 1 DNF, but that was his own fault.

Over the course of the full season, the luck, usually evens itself out, but at this stage, Vettel's earlier car failures are costing him dear.

Assuming of course it wasn't Vettel who broke the car. Webber hasn't had the same problems and we know Vettel likes to push the car, even when it isn't needed. Now that the clear number 1 and 2 status has presented itself, it also seems possible they were putting new upgrades on Vettel's car that had little testing. Just seems unlikely that he had all that "bad luck" and Webber seemed to get away with it.
 
Assuming of course it wasn't Vettel who broke the car. Webber hasn't had the same problems and we know Vettel likes to push the car, even when it isn't needed. Now that the clear number 1 and 2 status has presented itself, it also seems possible they were putting new upgrades on Vettel's car that had little testing. Just seems unlikely that he had all that "bad luck" and Webber seemed to get away with it.

I don't think there is a clear 1, 2 driver. Was at one point. But public opinion is a strong thing and changes situations.
RBR have no choice but to support the leader know and I will be shocked if vettelle is number 1. It is to damaging for the team from a public opinion standpoint. Ferrari can get away with it as that has always been there ethos and most of there fans know this and support the team rather than drivers.
 
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