Hungarian Grand Prix 2013, Budapest - Race 10/19

Skeeter said:
Was there room for him to have kept 2 wheels on the track?
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Doesn't it matter.

Webber did the same, did an overtake, no room to stay on track,gained a clear advantage by being miles ahead due to run off and instantly gave it back. Didnt need team or FIA to tell him.

It's where masa isn't thinking straight.
Their [the stewards'] hands are tied a bit but I think it's harsh. To the letter of the law, the stewards have had to do that but I did ask them what he should do - stay on the track and hit Massa or run wide and avoid the collision?
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Or the third option which happens every race, go off track but don't gain an advantage. Usually going of the track on an overtake you lose ground anyway, but ocasionally you gain and then you simply give it back.
 
Skeeter said:
Because its the difference between leaving the track and being forced of the track.
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Not the issue
Penalty was for gaining an advantage off the track. Not for leaving th track.
Give it back like webber and countless other people do. The reason he didnt was its not clear cut from the cockpit, unlike webber who once realised there was no space, went extra wide, RG didnt.
So it then comes down to the team checking and communicating with RG, which they obviusly didnt do.

Was webber forced off the track? Why didnt he recive a penalty? Perhaps becuase what he did afterwards, so it wasn't even investigated. Ie gave the place straight back.
 
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Skeeter said:
Your making an awful lot of assumptions.
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Not really.
You're the one trying to make up rules or change them..

but earned a drive-through penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage
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So no comment on webber then.

You don't get a penalty for just leaving the track, otherwise every driver would have a drive through every race. People miss braking zones, get pushed out all the time, that generally is not an issue, exempt in rare cases, where corners are cut on purpose race after race. Is it Singapore they were specifically told if they did this it would be a penalty as they were all taking the pee in practice.
 
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vimto was going off track every lap to gain an advantage but the fia did nothing.
I just hope fat john does some more epic overtakes soon.
 
Glaucus said:
Not really.
You're the one trying to make up rules or change them..



So no comment on webber then.

You don't get a penalty for just leaving the track, otherwise every driver would have a drive through every race. People miss braking zones, get pushed out all the time, that generally is not an issue, exempt in rare cases, where corners are cut on purpose race after race. Is it Singapore they were specifically told if they did this it would be a penalty as they were all taking the pee in practice.
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I'm not questioning the rule.

I question why the stewards didn't instruct him to give the place back if he left the track because he had no choice.
 
JHeaton said:
Yeah, I just can't figure out how the name is appropriate. One is a refreshing, fruity beverage, the other is just dull. :p
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rb is owned by pop makers, so I call him vimto get it :)
also FIA stands for Fizzydrinks international assistance :)

Reaper 392 said:
I cant remember which article it was that gave him the nickname, but Princess Stampy Foot is a much more appropriate name for Vettel :)
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I like that.
 
I just re-watched the footage of Grosjean overtaking Massa from the on-board shots and have some observations:

1. The overtake was brilliantly executed and very brave
2. All four wheels of Grosjean's car left the track
3. Grosjean was already ahead of Massa at the time he left the track (Massa's front wing was behind Grosjean's front wheel)
4. Massa ran Grosjean wide on the exit to turn 4, leaving Grosjean two choices: collide with Massa, or run off the track
5. I believe Grosjean would have stayed inside track limits if Massa hadn't ran him wide on the exit
6. The driver who is in front is the one entitled to keep the racing line (IMO this was Grosjean), therefore Massa should have backed off, not forcing Grosjean wide.

Based on the above I think the penalty handed to Grosjean was unjustified and not strictly according the rules. He already had the advantage (he didn't gain it by running wide, he'd achieved the overtake by then) and he was simply avoiding a collision and that Massa should have been less aggressive.

However, let's face it, Grosjean has "form" here. He's been at the centre of too many incidents and it's only natural that he's going to be a little more closely watched that some other drivers as a result.
 
Glaucus said:
Was webber forced off the track? Why didnt he recive a penalty? Perhaps becuase what he did afterwards, so it wasn't even investigated. Ie gave the place straight back.
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Am I right in saying you are talking about the Webber/Hamilton overtake?

Firstly Webber didn't give anything "back". On that corner you can see that rather than keeping near the edge of the track he decided to go around the rumble strip (so as not to beach the car). In going that wide and on the dirty concrete, he had to slow down or end up cartwheeling over the barrier (cartwheel may not have actually happened :D).

What Massa's view actually tells you, rather than how legal the move was, but actually that neither driver has enough vision of the wheels of the car to know where they are at any point. Surely this is the most worrying point, and actually shows that RGs move on Button may have been accidental (all though still his fault).
 
Glaucus said:
That's not down to the stewards. Never has been. Usually if in doubt the team asks. Not get told.
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Why does a command from the stewards to give a place back have to be precluded by a request from the team asking if they should?

Why should the outcome of the same event be different depending on if the team ask or not? Asking makes no difference to what happened on track? The move remains the same, surely any penalty should too?

If it was a move that was unfair and required him to give the place back, then giving the place back should be the penalty. Sure, if they ask them to and they refuse, then penalize them, but not before.
 
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