Hungarian Grand Prix 2013, Budapest - Race 10/19

As much as I was fuming at Grosjean for his spatial awareness brain fade with Jenson I do feel a bit sorry for him with the Massa overtake - this is what he got a penalty for right...?

Well why didn't the Stewards decide to investigate after the race, hear both sides from both drivers (they'd have found out Massa even thought he shouldn't have got a penalty for it) and then weighed up everything reasonably. He had decided to do the move from a very long way back after getting a better run out of the preceding turn... they should have taken into account the fact that he did the right thing in not hitting Massa and causing injury and DNFs for the pair of them.

If anything finally he should have been rewarded and applauded for such a daring overtake.

It's such a hard rule to implement though, something along the lines of "unless the stewards deem that driver x could not have avoided going off the track in order to avoid a collision" and judge each henceforth case with their discretion as to what if any penalty should be awarded.

I don't know, I just found it harsh. This particular overtake was completely and utterly different to let's say, Vettel's on Jenson at Hockenheim in 2012?
 
deuse said:
Because fat john done the best overtake of the race in my opinion and gets a drive through.

massa takes out Nico after coming back on track but not only that on lap 31 massa leaves the track again but nothing is done.

If you're going to have a rule then stick to it. And I won't mention Alonso going off later as well...oh look I did :)

As big ron said once about the fia "where is the consistency"
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Perhaps you should read the rulebook? going off track to gain an advantage, ie overtake a car is not allowed. Going off track and coming back on is off course not the same thing. The penalty for Grosjean was ridiculous that is where you should be aiming your mr angry rants, not at drivers who run a bit wide and return to the track as happens countless times in every race.

But I await you demanding a penalty for Lewis the next time he runs wide ;)
 
Ryan-3 said:
Fixed this for you.
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You would have to be beyond deluded to think Kimi could go to Red Bull and beat him over a season. Maybe years ago when Red Bull might have wanted a young Kimi but Red Bull will protect what they see as their future.

They won't be looking for a driver to beat Vettel, they don't want to upset him. They need someone to win when Vettel fails and take points out of rivals.

I like Kimi but he couldn't beat Massa over 3 seasons in a team he wasn't comfortable in. I doubt Red Bull would be any different. Kimi has the pace to beat a Grosjean but he wouldn't trouble a Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton. Hell if Rosberg was in that second Renault he would be beating Kimi.

Og course that's just my opinion but I'm hoping kimi takes the seat at Red Bull to prove it. I hope he proves me wrong, can't see it.
 
Susie Wolff did say in the R5L commentary that Kimi and Vettel in the RBR basically guarantees them the WCC. I agree. Webber has has bad luck and average results and RBR have still romped away with the last 3. Having Mr Consistent Kimi in the team would mean they could have the WCC wrapped up by Monza.
 
Skeeter said:
Susie Wolff did say in the R5L commentary that Kimi and Vettel in the RBR basically guarantees them the WCC. I agree. Webber has has bad luck and average results and RBR have still romped away with the last 3. Having Mr Consistent Kimi in the team would mean they could have the WCC wrapped up by Monza.
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Is he Mr consistent because he's not getting the best out of the car, safe steady drives home? I just get the feeling Grosjean is flattering him and when Grosjean can keep his head on for 5 minutes is able to make Kimi look well not that quick anymore.

His pace over 1 lap his strength seems to have gone too. I feel that Lotus is a better car than either driver is showing. I think Hamilton or Alonso would be damn near leading the title in it.

Either way at RB or Lotus I want Kimi to have a better team mate to find out :)
 
Mr Men said:
Perhaps you should read the rulebook? going off track to gain an advantage, ie overtake a car is not allowed. Going off track and coming back on is off course not the same thing. The penalty for Grosjean was ridiculous that is where you should be aiming your mr angry rants, not at drivers who run a bit wide and return to the track as happens countless times in every race.
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Lets look at it.
A driver(say massa) is going that fast he can't stay on the track so he goes off instead of slowing down
so he can stay in front. The driver has taken the advantage by not slowing down. It's really that simple.

But just for you

Massa was in front of JB and trying to pull away that's when he went off the track to gain a speed advantage.
So massa and Alonso and others went off the track to gain a advantage. And as you know a driver is not allowed
to have all 4 wheels off track.
 
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Janesy B said:
I hope Kimi doesn't go to Red Bull because that will effectively end any chance of him winning a WDC.
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Really? How? Do you think they would have any more luck reining in Kimi than they did with Mark?

Whilst the conspiracies around RBR are always fun, I don't believe any of them. They are not out there to sabotage one driver in order to allow Vettel to win. Mark hasn't won in whats been the best car for 4 years because of a bit less talent and a lot of bad luck. If Kimi can get some luck and have the talent to beat Vettel at times, why couldn't he be WDC? After all, there are a lot of people who still think Vettel is average and that its all the car.

Going on current form, I think not being in an RBR is the only way to be effectively without a chance at the WDC. At least in the RBR you only have 1 other RBR to beat.
 
I don't think they would mind whether Vettel or Kimi won the WDC, as long as they don't take each other out or do a Mclaren and gift it to another team.
 
Seb is number 1, and that's how it will always be. Most chances that Webber have either been sabotaged by Horner or by Vettel. I don't believe the conspiracies, I just think it's down to how Red Bull run things and there's not that much focus on giving driver #2 a chance to mount a challenge.

Having two very competitive drivers causes all sorts of issues, same with Alonso when Hamilton came along and really rattled his cage.
 
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Janesy B said:
Most chances that Webber have either been sabotaged by Horner or by Vettel.
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Lolwut?

Other than Vettel beating him in Malaysia, which was no different to what Mark tried to do in Silverstone 2 years ago anyway, how have they 'sabotaged' his chances?
 
Skeeter said:
Lolwut?

Other than Vettel beating him in Malaysia, which was no different to what Mark tried to do in Silverstone 2 years ago anyway, how have they 'sabotaged' his chances?
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Because he's number two, team orders will almost always go against him, and when Vettel is told to hold back he still ignores those orders, there's also no doubt as to who gets all the latest upgrades. Then there's the never ending KERS issue that never seems to be sorted. The focus is giving Vettel the best car and the best chance to win the WDC, whilst Webber struggles with all sorts of dumb issues that aren't his fault. For example: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-28/webber-slams-red-bull-for-stupid-car-problems/4848412

Maybe sabotage is the wrong word, things just don't seem to favour him. If things continue to go this way I wouldn't be surprised if Webber walks out during this season.

Excuse me if I'm rambling a bit, I've had too much caffeine today :D
 
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deuse said:
Lets look at it.
A driver(say massa) is going that fast he can't stay on the track so he goes off instead of slowing down
so he can stay in front. The driver has taken the advantage by not slowing down. It's really that simple.

But just for you

Massa was in front of JB and trying to pull away that's when he went off the track to gain a speed advantage.
So massa and Alonso and others went off the track to gain a advantage. And as you know a driver is not allowed
to have all 4 wheels off track.
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So in your view Massa, Kimi, Romain, Vettel, Alonso, Webber should all have got penalties for leaving the track and coming back on?

Are you seriously suggesting this is how F1 should go? really?
 
If that ever happens you'll just get more collisions because drivers will refuse to run wide/escape through chicanes to avoid contact through fear of being penalised.
 
Realistically, if you are trying to defend a place there's no need (beyond punting a rival off) to go off track to gain an advantage.

I'm sure it's clear to the stewards if you're lapping at 1.19.2.. you go off defending and pump in a 1.18.7, that you've gained something somewhere.

I notice Vettel went off a few times defending from Kimi :o
 
Janesy B said:
I hope Kimi doesn't go to Red Bull because that will effectively end any chance of him winning a WDC.
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I think it's more likely to effectively end Seb's chances of winning another WDC but we'd see. I'd like to see Seb face off against a driver we know has real talent in equal machinery then we'd see how good he really is.
 
Mr Men said:
So in your view Massa, Kimi, Romain, Vettel, Alonso, Webber should all have got penalties for leaving the track and coming back on?

Are you seriously suggesting this is how F1 should go? really?
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What's the point of the bloody rule then? I never saw Webber go off to gain a advantaged.

I bet fat john is thinking right now "all those other drivers went off the track to get a advantage but only me got done for it"
 
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