Poll: Hungarian Grand Prix 2021, Budapest - Race 11/23

Rate the 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix out of ten

  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .
GR63 said:
AM say the pump broke.. if they can be allowed to (with FIA supervision) replace pump, they may well succeed in appeal
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That's pretty convenient that the pump broke on the day they are suspected to be under-fuelled, especially given Vettel was immediately told to stop the car on track as soon as he crossed the line as if they knew they had run out of fuel. If it was just a case of the team replacing the pump under supervision, why not do it at the time, not say they could have done it a few days later?

Rules like this are pretty cut and dried, coming up with excuses after the fact shouldn't get the team anywhere. It's not a question of what they say they had in the tank, or what they could/might have done, it's purely "did you supply the sample as and when requested", and the answer to that remains a resounding "no".
 
GR63 said:
I'm sure AM know those.. and presumably have an answer...
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I'm mean, we've just seen Red Bull's comedy attempt to appeal Lewis' penalty so I'm not sure the team thinking it has grounds means much. I dunno, it seems like a real punt from Aston to me. I guess after their disappointing start to the season they're desperate to keep the points for the battle against AT and Alpine.
 
GR63 said:
I'm sure AM know those.. and presumably have an answer... but either way, even as a HAM fan I hope they succeed cos Seb deserves it
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It's just a hail mary, and I think will fail. I don't think any driver deserves a finishing place if they effectively broke the rules while getting it. It's the same for everyone.
 
There's no downside to appealing, so really, why wouldn't they appeal? If there's even a slim chance of getting (some of) the points back, it's worth having a few people argue the case for a couple of weeks.
 
Kenai said:
There's no downside to appealing, so really, why wouldn't they appeal? If there's even a slim chance of getting (some of) the points back, it's worth having a few people argue the case for a couple of weeks.
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Eddie Irvine appealed once and got his penalty expanded... but I can't see DSQ being expanded....
 
GR63 said:
AM say the pump broke.. if they can be allowed to (with FIA supervision) replace pump, they may well succeed in appeal
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Will the car still be in parc ferme or did they "find" the 1.7l once it had left? if the latter I'd imagine they won't have a leg to stand on. The fact that Vettel stopped out on track doesn't really help their case either.
 
CSMonkeh said:
Was that for barge-boards at Malaysia?
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Yep.

Still, McLaren almost deserved it after their shambolic season. Despite having by far and away the fastest car and their only rival in hospital, they still nearly lost to Eddie Irvine and Eddie Jordan*, a couple of chancers from Ireland.

* Granted, Frentzen was beyond epic that year, but still shouldn't have been in a position to tie the drivers championship with 2 races to go.
 
mmj_uk said:
Will the car still be in parc ferme or did they "find" the 1.7l once it had left? if the latter I'd imagine they won't have a leg to stand on. The fact that Vettel stopped out on track doesn't really help their case either.
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the 1.7 is calculated from the flow rate from FIA sensor.. and the suggestion is its in there but broken pump wont lift it... Dunno if that will fly though
 
I wonder if their appeal is based on the sensor incorrectly reporting the fuel flow, leading to them thinking that they had more than they did. I don't know how they measure fuel - whether it's tank measurement, weight or through the FIA sensor based on how much they started with or if they can use their own fuel flow sensor as well as the FIA one.
 
If then the flow rate from a FIA sensor was incorrect then I am sure the team's argument will also be that we ran a race using a inaccurate sensor, and thus gave instructions to our driver for lap times and the performance of the car based upon this. I think that would possibly be quite a strong argument though we shall see, sensors can fail in the course of a race as we know..
 
GR63 said:
the 1.7 is calculated from the flow rate from FIA sensor.. and the suggestion is its in there but broken pump wont lift it... Dunno if that will fly though
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IIRC, there's a provision in the rules for manually pumping the fuel out of there's a pump failure. The team still couldn't provide the required sample.
 
GR63 said:
the 1.7 is calculated from the flow rate from FIA sensor.. and the suggestion is its in there but broken pump wont lift it... Dunno if that will fly though
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So if the FIA sensor data shows that there should be 1.7l remaining and the pump apparently broke then why didn't the FIA investigate more before disqualifying him? why did Vettel stop on track? isn't it more like that the sensor is wrong and the tank is simply empty? in which case is there a case there for the sensor being inaccurate? don't the teams have their own sensors?
 
cuke2u said:
https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/16...er-targets-ferraris-suspected-aliasing-trick/
More sensors will mean more weight and when you are chasing times down to 0.001 then weight can be crucial...
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Most cars are underweight and have to have ballast to bring them up to the minimum weight. There is an advantage in that you can then put the ballast where you want it to maximise the handling of a car. An extra fuel sensor simply means taking some of the ballast out of the car elsewhere to maintain the minimum weight.
 
Steampunk said:
IIRC, there's a provision in the rules for manually pumping the fuel out of there's a pump failure. The team still couldn't provide the required sample.
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Yep.

6.6.3 All cars must be fitted with a –2 'Symetrics' male fitting in order to facilitate fuel sampling. If an electric pump on board the car cannot be used to remove the fuel an externally connected one may be used provided it is evident that a representative fuel sample is being taken. If an external pump is used it must be possible to connect the FIA sampling hose to it and any hose between the car and pump must be -3 in diameter and not exceed 2m in length. Details of the fuel sampling hose may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.
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mmj_uk said:
So if the FIA sensor data shows that there should be 1.7l remaining and the pump apparently broke then why didn't the FIA investigate more before disqualifying him? why did Vettel stop on track? isn't it more like that the sensor is wrong and the tank is simply empty? in which case is there a case there for the sensor being inaccurate? don't the teams have their own sensors?
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The teams can also work out how much fuel has been used by the fuel pressure and the duty cycles on the injectors.
 
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