Icecold's mobility thread

[Skillmister]

Stop 'putting' 'things' 'in' 'quotations'

It's not a weights or training issue, i haven't done squats or DLs since the beginning of february and don't plan on starting again until it's sorted. It's more the fact that i'm getting lower back pain from sitting that i didn't get before with my horrific (but normal to me) posture.

 

[Delvis]

Stop 'putting' 'things' 'in' 'quotations'

It's not a weights or training issue, i haven't done squats or DLs since the beginning of february and don't plan on starting again until it's sorted. It's more the fact that i'm getting lower back pain from sitting that i didn't get before with my horrific (but normal to me) posture.

Apologies, I just do it when I'm trying to make a certain word stand out but not so I'm shouting it at you (ie bold / italic etc )

See now, I'm getting lower back pain while sitting, although not specifically just while sitting...So a pretty similar issue. And it came about after I was more aware of the tilt and trying to stop it from happening. Now it almost feels as if it tilts more so

 

[icecold]

Is fixing APT likely to make my back weaker for a bit until it starts getting used to being fixed and begins to strengthen?

Yes, that's exactly what I found.

It's a case of the muscles in your back having to learn how to work properly. They will be very weak initially, so give them time (like you are!). You do need to do something though, some of the videos in Pate's thread are useful here. If your ankle is up to it, light goblet squats would be good as long as you don't butt wink at all.


Delvis, good anterior core work includes planks, leg raises, and this stuff:

http://www.ericcressey.com/lumbar-flexion-strength-training-programs-reverse-crunch

 

[currantloaf]

Hi icecold was just wondering if you can suggest anything else to aid some lateral collateral ligament - the outside ligament that connects the hamstring to back of knee . So far i have been following some of the suggested exercises on mobilitywod that place a ball in the join and pull the leg in and manipulate it. I have also been rolling it out to. Just become slightly concious of it while squatting as i can feel it on the way down, it is more in my left dominant leg then right one. If you have any advice/ different exercise it will be greatly appreciated if not no worries! Thanks

 

[Deception]

Just a little update:

Should get band today or tomorrow, so will get stuck in to ankle mobility. I've been destroying the bottom of my feet to help get the arch back and gradually, im able to arch the bottom of my feet to get a better platform for squats and its really helping.

The ball work around the ankle dont half hurt though! haha, but really seeing improvements so far, so thanks a lot Ice

 

[Delvis]

Delvis, good anterior core work includes planks, leg raises, and this stuff:

http://www.ericcressey.com/lumbar-flexion-strength-training-programs-reverse-crunch

Cheers matey.

Going to get on the planks and work up slowly while seeing a physio. I'll start with planks then work on to ball work etc once im getting back in to the swing of things.

Thanks for the link as well

EDIT: Just reading through it...Can you elaborate on the following?

These points in mind, I’m a firm believer that you should avoid:

a) end-range lumbar flexion

b) lumbar flexion exercises in those who already spend their entire lives in flexion

c) lumbar flexion under load

It seems pretty cut and dry, right? Don’t move your lumbar spine and you’ll be fine, right? Tell that to someone who lives in lumbar hyperextension and anterior pelvic tilt. Let me make that clearer:

B is what concerns me, considering im an office boy

 

[icecold]

Hi icecold was just wondering if you can suggest anything else to aid some lateral collateral ligament - the outside ligament that connects the hamstring to back of knee . So far i have been following some of the suggested exercises on mobilitywod that place a ball in the join and pull the leg in and manipulate it. I have also been rolling it out to. Just become slightly concious of it while squatting as i can feel it on the way down, it is more in my left dominant leg then right one. If you have any advice/ different exercise it will be greatly appreciated if not no worries! Thanks

I can't really offer any additional advice there, sorry.

Are you sure your squat form is good?

Just a little update:

Should get band today or tomorrow, so will get stuck in to ankle mobility. I've been destroying the bottom of my feet to help get the arch back and gradually, im able to arch the bottom of my feet to get a better platform for squats and its really helping.

The ball work around the ankle dont half hurt though! haha, but really seeing improvements so far, so thanks a lot Ice

Good stuff!

I've written the rest of the squatting mobilisations, so I'll post that in the next day or so.

Cheers matey.

Going to get on the planks and work up slowly while seeing a physio. I'll start with planks then work on to ball work etc once im getting back in to the swing of things.

Thanks for the link as well

EDIT: Just reading through it...Can you elaborate on the following?



B is what concerns me, considering im an office boy

He's saying to avoid all movement, particularly loaded movement at end range (end range being... the end of your range of motion) that involves forward rounding of the lower back.

The reverse crunches are ok because you aren't at end range and the load is low, meaning that there is less force in dangerous directions.

Sitting badly, while involving low loads, will most likely see you resting on the end range of your tissues.

The simple solution to your seating problem is to sit correctly

This is a prime example of the principal of there being no days off.

 

[Klytus]

Hi icecold was just wondering if you can suggest anything else to aid some lateral collateral ligament - the outside ligament that connects the hamstring to back of knee . So far i have been following some of the suggested exercises on mobilitywod that place a ball in the join and pull the leg in and manipulate it. I have also been rolling it out to. Just become slightly concious of it while squatting as i can feel it on the way down, it is more in my left dominant leg then right one. If you have any advice/ different exercise it will be greatly appreciated if not no worries! Thanks

I can't really offer any additional advice there, sorry.

Are you sure your squat form is good?

Hi, if you want my opinion it is unlikely that the LCL is the source of the pain as its a very thick, strong ligament and requires significant trauma to damage it. It sounds like you are refering to the tendon of the Biceps Femoris which is the most outer one of the hamstrings. From the description of your problem however, I would be more inclined to say that it is more likely your posterolateral menisci (rear/outer cartilage) as you feel it on the way down rather than on the way up. Also the hamstrings have an attachment to the menisci so often what looks like is a hamstring insertion tendinopathy is actually posterior menisci. The other most common cause of pain in that area is from the ITB (which may well be tight on its own or due to muscle imbalances that icecold has mentioned before). Unfortunately no one here can tell you whats best to do to fix it until someone has had a proper look at it and accurately diagnosed it.

 

[Delvis]

He's saying to avoid all movement, particularly loaded movement at end range (end range being... the end of your range of motion) that involves forward rounding of the lower back.

The reverse crunches are ok because you aren't at end range and the load is low, meaning that there is less force in dangerous directions.

Sitting badly, while involving low loads, will most likely see you resting on the end range of your tissues.

The simple solution to your seating problem is to sit correctly

This is a prime example of the principal of there being no days off.

Fair game, ta for the reply

I'm guessing I bum tucked too much or something back in Feb and just tweaked something

I normally sit up straight to be honest, and we have decent chairs at work...Just gotta figure out what to do with my butt / lower back when sitting...Do I stick it out or try and flatting the spine? (like when you lay flat on the floor and push your lower back down flat)

Had a small cardio / core session today, first thing I've done in over a month, didn't feel any pain...But I tend to feel the pain when sitting atm

 

[Deception]

Good stuff!

I've written the rest of the squatting mobilisations, so I'll post that in the next day or so.

Great, should be a good read.

 

[Begbie]

Icecold/anyone,

Keep getting a damn clicking noise on my right shoulder, also in a bit of pain now and then especially after a shoulder workout. I do plan on seeing a physio, but out of the UK at the moment for another 6 weeks or so.

Any good movements I can do to try and sort it out? I can't see it being my form, but then I don't have a spotter and its not always to see how my form is using only mirrors.

Thanks much

edit;

SO I watched this

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2012/02/daily-prog-shoulder-internal-rotation-13.html

The first one is unpracticable, but the second two look good. Will need to buy a ball and some bands

 

[[Damien]]

Icecold/anyone,

Keep getting a damn clicking noise on my right shoulder, also in a bit of pain now and then especially after a shoulder workout. I do plan on seeing a physio, but out of the UK at the moment for another 6 weeks or so.

I used to get quite a bit of clicking in my shoulders, especially my left one. It was mainly caused by overdoing bench press without also matching it with and equal amount of rows/pullups. I now do equal amounts of press, OH press, rows and pullups and my shoulders are fine. Doing shoulder dislocations with a broom helps mobility too but my god does it hurt.

Also, to the guy with APT - I have that too. It's a combination of something I've had since I was very little, and a lifetime of desk jobs and poor posture. Ab strengthening/hip flexor stretching is definitely the way to go but I've also had good results from deadlifts surprisingly enough. Strengthening your back seems a bit counter intuitive but the glute/hamstring strength I've developed has definitely helped with my posture. Having good back muscles has helped my hypermobile spine too.

I do straight back-stiff leg deadlifts (link) with lightish weights (50-60kg) to work my hams, and more regular, heavy (110-120kg) deadlifts from the floor to work my glutes/back more.

I do my regular deadlifts with straighter legs than usual though, because I'm nursing a quad sprain/impinged fat pad in my knee, and because getting a good hamstring tension before I lift emphasizes my glute involvement.

I really don't do as much ab/hip flexor work as I should though...

 

[Delvis]

Started more direct Ab / core work now, doing this for a few weeks to see how things go.

Also going to start opening up my hips and hams more I think

 

[Begbie]

I used to get quite a bit of clicking in my shoulders, especially my left one. It was mainly caused by overdoing bench press without also matching it with and equal amount of rows/pullups. I now do equal amounts of press, OH press, rows and pullups and my shoulders are fine. Doing shoulder dislocations with a broom helps mobility too but my god does it hurt.

Also, to the guy with APT - I have that too. It's a combination of something I've had since I was very little, and a lifetime of desk jobs and poor posture. Ab strengthening/hip flexor stretching is definitely the way to go but I've also had good results from deadlifts surprisingly enough. Strengthening your back seems a bit counter intuitive but the glute/hamstring strength I've developed has definitely helped with my posture. Having good back muscles has helped my hypermobile spine too.

I do straight back-stiff leg deadlifts (link) with lightish weights (50-60kg) to work my hams, and more regular, heavy (110-120kg) deadlifts from the floor to work my glutes/back more.

I do my regular deadlifts with straighter legs than usual though, because I'm nursing a quad sprain/impinged fat pad in my knee, and because getting a good hamstring tension before I lift emphasizes my glute involvement.

I really don't do as much ab/hip flexor work as I should though...

I do more pull ups than bench, I don't bench with the olly bar either only with dumbells. Shall have a look at that, bring on the pain

 

[RobSmith]

Hip flexor work is as the guy in mobwod said, torture!

But so worth it! Massively helped me with my squats.

Only problem I have now is that I have a slight imbalance in my flexibility between my right and left. I've been watching myself when squatting and find myself coming up on one side faster than the other and looking a bit "wobbley". There is a good mobwod video i watched on addressing the problem but can't for the life of me remember which one.

 

[icecold]

Icecold/anyone,

Keep getting a damn clicking noise on my right shoulder, also in a bit of pain now and then especially after a shoulder workout. I do plan on seeing a physio, but out of the UK at the moment for another 6 weeks or so.

Any good movements I can do to try and sort it out? I can't see it being my form, but then I don't have a spotter and its not always to see how my form is using only mirrors.

Thanks much

edit;

SO I watched this

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2012/02/daily-prog-shoulder-internal-rotation-13.html

The first one is unpracticable, but the second two look good. Will need to buy a ball and some bands

Clicking is sometimes benign, but it can also be a sign that your shoulder (including your scapula) is out of position.

For some people, simply doing more pulling movements isn't enough (although it should be your first port of call, provided you're not in serious pain). Not only might your pecs/anterior tissues and internal rotators be tight, be the various muscle of your back might not be working properly.

Strength Training Programs: Are Pull-ups THAT Essential? | Eric Cressey | High Performance Training, Personal Training

As you will read, it's not all about pullups! Try some of the exercises from that article, as well as the usual pec stretches, shoulder dislocations and pulling exercises.

snip!

Good advice!

Started more direct Ab / core work now, doing this for a few weeks to see how things go.

Also going to start opening up my hips and hams more I think

Good stuff, what are you doing and how are you finding it?

Hip flexor work is as the guy in mobwod said, torture!

But so worth it! Massively helped me with my squats.

Only problem I have now is that I have a slight imbalance in my flexibility between my right and left. I've been watching myself when squatting and find myself coming up on one side faster than the other and looking a bit "wobbley". There is a good mobwod video i watched on addressing the problem but can't for the life of me remember which one.

Just FYI, it might not be a flexibility problem, it might be that certain muscles (glute med., VMO, etc.) fire better on one side. Can't say without seeing you move though

 

[Delvis]

Good stuff, what are you doing and how are you finding it?

Just starting light with front and side planks, also done some reverse crunches (BW) to see how things go.

Got a physio request coming through as well soon hopefully, so i'll see how that goes.

Will eventually try to do some Stability Ball rollouts / or get an Ab Dolly maybe.

Slow progress I think After a couple of weeks ill look in to getting some weights in...probably not deads or squats sadly

 

[Klytus]

Icecold/anyone,

Keep getting a damn clicking noise on my right shoulder, also in a bit of pain now and then especially after a shoulder workout. I do plan on seeing a physio, but out of the UK at the moment for another 6 weeks or so.

Any good movements I can do to try and sort it out? I can't see it being my form, but then I don't have a spotter and its not always to see how my form is using only mirrors.

Thanks much

edit;

SO I watched this

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2012/02/daily-prog-shoulder-internal-rotation-13.html

The first one is unpracticable, but the second two look good. Will need to buy a ball and some bands

There are a number of reasons for clicking of the shoulder joint. Often joints click and that is quite normal unless there is associated pain (as in your case). Now, depending on where the clicking is felt would help the differential diagnosis.

Clicking at the scapula (shoulder blade) can be caused by the movement of the scapula over old/new fractures of the ribs or scapula itself, over a bony spur near the subscapula bursa, over the thickened bursa, over on old/new subscapularis muscle injury. It can also be caused by instability at the scapula and/or abnormal movement of the scapula, often caused by weak serratus anterior, trapezius, tight posterior joint capsule (this is the only one where the mobwod vid you linked would help), overactive or tight pec minor, rhomboids, levator scapulae etc. etc.

As the scapula are more restricted during bench press than say shoulder press then the other cause (which is more likely) is that the clicking is from the GH joint itself (the actual shoulder joint). The main causes of painful clicking shoulder problems in people aged <35 are instability (as a result of previous trauma -eg. dislocation or insidiously - eg. hypermobiity) or labrum (cartilage) injuries (SLAP lesions Bankhart lesions etc.)


One thing I feel I must state is that pull ups DO NOT balance out pec work. Pec major, subscapularis, Lat Dorsi and Teres Major ALL medially rotate the humerus. Only Infraspinatus and teres minor laterally rotate it. So by doing pec work and pull ups and neglecting lateral rotation strengthening exercises you are effectively causing a muscle imbalance which can then cause impingement, cuff tears etc. etc.

You need an assessment to establish the cause of your clicking (and if it is due to muscle imbalance which structures are weak and or loose and which are tight and or overactive) to know the exact things to do to treat it. If you wanted my opinion on what to do in the meantime I would start by adding some external rotation strengthening (making sure the movement all comes from the GH joint) and possibly some serratus anterior exs too. If the problem is due to instability the last thing you want to do is start making it looser before your physio identifies the specific structures which need loosening. Hope that is of some help to you.

 

[icecold]

^ thanks, explained it far better

What are your lateral rotation exercises of choice good sir?

 

[Klytus]

^ thanks, explained it far better

What are your lateral rotation exercises of choice good sir?

No problem. For me its all about the technique, whichever position/variation that you can perform without the shoulder blade moving back/forward or swinging your body or weight around.

This is good technique:-

or you can use a band or the pulleys in the gym to do it this way:

There are other variations but again i stress its all about GOOD quality movement. If you haven't got that then reduce the resistance until you have.

Edit: Out of interest, do many of you incorporate any external rotation strengthening into your weights routine?