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Caporegime
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WHo has said that my Russia-loving, Trump-adoring simpleton (by your own admission)?
If the worst came to the worst and things escalated
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WHo has said that my Russia-loving, Trump-adoring simpleton (by your own admission)?
Last I checked, countries joined NATO by choice, not by decree of the US / UK government.
Russia does not get to decide who can and can not join NATO, it's not up to them.
Ukraine have killed many people, the key difference is Ukraine is doing it in defense of itself as a nation and those people they're killing are enemy combatants engaged in a hostile invasion of Ukraine.
They are not, however, Hitting housing blocks with cruise missiles, hitting malls and hospitals with cruise missiles, nor deliberately raping and killing innocent civilians. (And that's just the highlights from the list of War Crimes that have been commited by Russia, Russian Troops and those serving Russia (Wagner) during this invasion.)
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Putin wanted to resolve issues with Ukraine before Ukraine became part of NATO, once Ukraine became part of NATO it would not have been possible.
Putin said he wanted to protect the people from the Donetsk region and De-Nazify Ukraine, as we know Donestk was never under attack and there aren't any Neo-Nazis in Ukraine.
There have been multiple reports done by the BBC, CNN, AFP news and others already proving Putin to be a liar.
None of these videos are about the current invasion itself.
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You said "Wussia Bad" implying that you think people calling out Russian for invading another country are saying that only because it's Russia? Which implies you don't think Russia are doing anything bad.
Add to that your previous post where you suggest this is Russia defending itself, this paints the picture which suggests you think Russia are right to do what they're doing.
Which goes back to my original point, you're OK with Russia invading a country, killing civilians and destroying infrastructure.
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Oh boy, you've been on the forum long enough to realise that you're NEVER allowed to ask difficult questions in here
1. You could be a Ukrainian volunteer fighting Russians daily but, should you ask this question in here, the speakers corner massive will rain down "oh so you're pro-Russia then" without a seconds hesitation, and if you're Pro-Russia you're just as evil as them.
2. You will NEVER get an actual discussion over the answer, because people assume that by asking a difficult question, what you're actually trying to do is change their mind from "Russia Bad" which automatically must mean that you're "pro-Russia" and, again, you're just as evil as them.
3. Because you're just as evil as them now, nothing you post ever again will be taken at its face value by them. Instead everything will be deliberately twisted, misread and even just lies about what your post actual says will be created, and that twisting and/or lies will form the basis of the replies people will post and to them its OK to do that, because, again, you're just as evil as them.
4. Finally (and I'm violating my own internal rule here) you should never, ever defend peoples right to ask a difficult question in here, because that automatically also makes you "pro-something they don't like" to the speakers corner massive and, again, you now also become just as evil as them for "defending" someone's right to have an opinion, irrespective of whether you agree with that opinion or not.
This happens so many times, over and over and over again and it's always the same group of say 40-70 posters combined from both sides (depending on the subject) that react like this and I'm absolutely sure the same happens no matter which "side" happens to be the "correct" side in the argument - Left or Right, Pro or Anti etc - and we're all guilty of the same things (I know I am around the Speakers Corner Massive), of allowing the anonymity of the Web to make our responses far harsher than they would be face to face.
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Soldato
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Hambags at dawn chapter one "the opening salvo"
*hambags is funnier
*hambags is funnier
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Oh boy, you've been on the forum long enough to realise that you're NEVER allowed to ask difficult questions in here
Difficult questions can be welcome, but asking the same dumb question that has been answered 100 times already by multiple different posters does make it get rather tiresome.
Let me spell it out for you clearly one last time.
Independent Nation States request to join NATO, they are not told, forced, or instructed to do so by the US, the UK or anyone else. It is entirely voluntary and plenty of countries are still perfectly happy NOT being a member of NATO.
The reason for this is quite simple. The idea that NATO "backed Russia into a corner" is so utterly flawed and at this point downright ignorant that one has to wonder whether anyone still regurgitating these lines has more than 2 braincells to rub together for warmth.
NATO expanded because other independent nation states requested membership. They CHOSE to. They were not Forced or Told. They were not Invaded.
The ONLY "Hostile Expansion" there has been was Russia invading Crimea in 2014 and now again Invading the rest of Ukraine. This constant "But NATO Made us do it" is just so unbelievably flawed and stupid as an argument that frankly at this stage, all it really warrants is the response it gets.
The discussions have been had and done. long ago.. and many times over. The problem is that certain individuals refuse to actually listen to those discussions.
If they had bothered to actually do so, they would very quickly come to realize, as described above... That NATO Is a Defensive Alliance that people CHOOSE to join.
There was and never has been any "Hostile NATO Expansion".. Only Voluntary NATO Expansion, due to more and more countries wanting the safety and security that being part of a large defensive alliance can offer.(And after what Russia has done with Ukraine now, I suspect even MORE countries)
Arguably at this stage anyone still attempting to paint a picture of Western aggression and Hostile NATO expansion somehow caused Russia to invade an Independent Sovereign Nation and commit War Crimes against civilians is either deliberately trolling, or genuinely believes that Russia is justified in their actions....
Last time I checked, Hitting Hospitals, Malls and Apartment Blocks with Cruise Missiles and your troops raping and executing civilians are not just War Crimes, but pretty ****ing evil.
Whilst I agree that there seems to be far too many occurrences these days of people immediately jumping on the "Oh because you said this, you must also mean that" I feel I need to suggest that is not what was happening here.
The individual in question came in and asked (for the god-knows how many-th time it's been said in this thread) "Does no one think Russia were put into a corner by NATO and US encroachment both disregarding the North Atlantic treaty?"
Now, this has not only been discussed multiple times in the past in the thread and could easily have been searched for the numerous times it's been mentioned, but it has repeatedly in those discussions been wholly dismissed as both factually flawed and frankly stupid.
(see above, It's rather hard to have a "Hostile Expansion" of a defensive alliance that people choose to join of their own free will, If you want to see what Hostile Expansion looks like, just see what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now.)
It is akin to the Bully saying he was made to do it because he felt threatened by all the nerd kids who are just trying to defend each other.
TL;DR At this stage in the discussion any suggestion that NATO cornered Russia into becoming a massive aggressor, which somehow culminated into forcing them to invade a neighboring sovereign nation state and commit countless War Crimes is either Trolling, or Stupid.
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They have tested icbm’s constantly over the past 40 years . And Russia has without question the most advanced missile technology and every country in the world acknowledges hense the reason everyone is pushing billions into replacing what they have as the Russians are far ahead of everyone
I wholeheartedly agree but some here seem alright, some however would be better off working for Twitter pre Elon.Oh boy, you've been on the forum long enough to realise that you're NEVER allowed to ask difficult questions in here
1. You could be a Ukrainian volunteer fighting Russians daily but, should you ask this question in here, the speakers corner massive will rain down "oh so you're pro-Russia then" without a seconds hesitation, and if you're Pro-Russia you're just as evil as them.
2. You will NEVER get an actual discussion over the answer, because people assume that by asking a difficult question, what you're actually trying to do is change their mind from "Russia Bad" which automatically must mean that you're "pro-Russia" and, again, you're just as evil as them.
3. Because you're just as evil as them now, nothing you post ever again will be taken at its face value by them. Instead everything will be deliberately twisted, misread and even just lies about what your post actual says will be created, and that twisting and/or lies will form the basis of the replies people will post and to them its OK to do that, because, again, you're just as evil as them.
4. Finally (and I'm violating my own internal rule here) you should never, ever defend peoples right to ask a difficult question in here, because that automatically also makes you "pro-something they don't like" to the speakers corner massive and, again, you now also become just as evil as them for "defending" someone's right to have an opinion, irrespective of whether you agree with that opinion or not.
This happens so many times, over and over and over again and it's always the same group of say 40-70 posters combined from both sides (depending on the subject) that react like this and I'm absolutely sure the same happens no matter which "side" happens to be the "correct" side in the argument - Left or Right, Pro or Anti etc - and we're all guilty of the same things (I know I am around the Speakers Corner Massive), of allowing the anonymity of the Web to make our responses far harsher than they would be face to face.
If that is the case, why is it that the "allied" (for want of a better term) MLRS systems are absolutely wrecking the Russians yet their own MLRS can't hit **** all?
If they have the most advanced missile tech in the world and are "so far ahead of everyone" why can't then even manage the "crude and simple" MLRS effectiveness that we see from the HIMARS ?
Could it be because their missiles couldn't hit the side of an aircraft hangar door... from the inside?
The entire world has acknowledged that Russian ICBM’s are the best and far ahead of anything anyone else has . Not talking battlefield weapons that’s completely different . But hey ho the worlds top military buffs say the are the best best and years ahead of anything anyone else has but some random guy on the internet says otherwise . Think I know who I believe more
Oh boy, you've been on the forum long enough to realise that you're NEVER allowed to ask difficult questions in here
1. You could be a Ukrainian volunteer fighting Russians daily but, should you ask this question in here, the speakers corner massive will rain down "oh so you're pro-Russia then" without a seconds hesitation, and if you're Pro-Russia you're just as evil as them.
2. You will NEVER get an actual discussion over the answer, because people assume that by asking a difficult question, what you're actually trying to do is change their mind from "Russia Bad" which automatically must mean that you're "pro-Russia" and, again, you're just as evil as them.
3. Because you're just as evil as them now, nothing you post ever again will be taken at its face value by them. Instead everything will be deliberately twisted, misread and even just lies about what your post actual says will be created, and that twisting and/or lies will form the basis of the replies people will post and to them its OK to do that, because, again, you're just as evil as them.
4. Finally (and I'm violating my own internal rule here) you should never, ever defend peoples right to ask a difficult question in here, because that automatically also makes you "pro-something they don't like" to the speakers corner massive and, again, you now also become just as evil as them for "defending" someone's right to have an opinion, irrespective of whether you agree with that opinion or not.
This happens so many times, over and over and over again and it's always the same group of say 40-70 posters combined from both sides (depending on the subject) that react like this and I'm absolutely sure the same happens no matter which "side" happens to be the "correct" side in the argument - Left or Right, Pro or Anti etc - and we're all guilty of the same things (I know I am around the Speakers Corner Massive), of allowing the anonymity of the Web to make our responses far harsher than they would be face to face.
Take a breath mate.
Does it justify killing civilians and bombing Ukraine's infrastructure? That's a weird way to protect the boundary from NATO.
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You do realize that without evidence to back up the claims you make, you are yourself nothing more than some random guy on the internet making claims right?
Sure they have a few Hypersonic Missiles, as I recall US (and other nations) were researching those at least a decade ago and shelved it at the time (May have had to do with a belief that they always head stealth so didn't need them).
The trouble is, it's all well and good "having the bestest, badest stuff" on paper, but if you cannot put it into the field, it is utterly useless.
It seems apparent that Russia cannot produce the hypersonic missiles in any significant kind of quantity and are often resorting to use S300 / S400 in ground-attack roles.
It also seems apparent that many of the other Russian weapons platforms either significantly underperform or fail to deliver entirely in their objective, no doubt in large part due to the massive corruption throughout Russia and it's armed forces resulting in hundreds of "yes men" promising the moon and delivering a moldy Bree.
Google is your friend I’m not searching for links to prove a point that is common knowledge I have better things to do .Why do you think the entire world is replacing their ancient ICBM’s ? It’s because Russia has the best and everyone is playing catch up that’s been reported for years
Soldato
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Good post but you have missed a couple of key facts.
The person who triggered this post has a lol posting history and pretty darn lol views generally, even quickly to follow up you get these classics.
eg
Love him to bits but when you start seeing likes by a certain Mr Wilson you get an idea of the fringe views being displayed.
Then the actual person you quoted.
Repeatedly brings a massive shoulder chip into the conversation for some reason.
Whilst he had a reasonable view on a few posts celebrating Russian deaths he has never, ever, not once, offered any actual potential get outs nor solutions.
Jazz hand waving, oh your so bad saying stuff like that but then offering nothing just appears as someone who thinks they can wish it all better.
I can only think they are really massive Corbyn fans, they say exactly the same things he says. If not they should maybe think a little before they post
As given the "theme" of this thread, if "the worst came to the worst" we know full well that accuracy of anyone's ICBMs is frankly irrelevant.
If "worst came to worst" there would be dozens, maybe even hundreds of launches from multiple sites and ballistic missile subs and the whole ****ing contest about "who has the best ICBM" becomes utterly moot.
I suspect (as is the case for the US nuclear program) that many countries are looking at / starting upgrading and replacing their ICBM's in-line with spinning up production of new nuclear pits in an effort to maintain (and retain) the required knowledge to build, service and operate Nuclear Weapons and their ICBMs.
Nope.
Russia has the absolute most amazing, most advanced, cutting edge, incredible, world beating military technology….
Until it’s actually needed - then in reality it turns out to be a load of BS operated by people off the street, with no training.
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