Incident outside parliament in london - developing now

[Caracus2k]

I'm not sure what you mean, i meant BUILD UPWARDS to the question of rural building whatsoever.

They tried that in the 1960/70's for social housing in the UK .... Dont think it worked out all that well. Dense housing requires even more intensive investment in infrastructure.

 

[D.P.]

200000 per year is a huge number, it’s not so much the immigrants, it’s the infrastructure, the schools, the NHS is not upgraded to cope with the extra numbers. It leads to resentment of immigrants as we see now.

The infrastructure limitations are a result of failed government policy. This is what happens when the Tories are in power. The same would be true regardless of immigration beyond some localized effects (which again is a failure of government policy).

Xenophobia and racism leads to the resentment of immigrants.

 

[D.P.]

Where exactly are the local authority going to magic the money up for this new infrastructure?

Our goverment already spends more money than it collects by a large amount and has done so for many years.

Spending more money than it collects is not a big issue, this isn't family financing.

But the simple solution is to collect more money, and stop the pension triple lock.

 

[D.P.]

Is circa 200-300k net immigrants in the UK sustainable or desirable.

Yes

Exactly how may is too many?

You would have to define too many.

 

[D.P.]

I don't think I was claiming all migrant are terrorists?

In 2016 there was 774,835 live births (ONS figures) and 28.2% of thoose live births were to women born outside the UK (218,503)

Net migration that year was 'down' to 248,000

So total 'new' population that year was 1,022,835 of which the component for UK born mothers was 556,332 so we are at a point where people coming into the UK and children born to non UK mothers will outnumber children born to UK mothers. How's integration going to work out with figures like that?

Why do you care about the birth place of the mothers? Second generation immigrant integrate extremely well.


Integration works great overall when there s no xenophobia - on both sides. The thing is most people all want the same thing no matter the were they were born: a safe place to live, a good environment to raise a family, a job that comfortably pays the bills, no worry of getting bombed in your sleep, access to food and water.

 

[Caracus2k]

Why do you care about the birth place of the mothers? Second generation immigrant integrate extremely well.


Integration works great overall when there s no xenophobia - on both sides.

Some intergrate better than others.....

Gareth Stansfield, professor of Middle East politics at Exeter University, said Abedi appeared typical of many second-generation migrants drawn to Islamist groups. “It’s the classic thing of being dispossessed, of having no roots. They see the perceived immorality of the west around them and these seeds are planted and become extremely toxic and poisonous.”

Perhaps if the women in the UK were more modest and stopped apparently walking around as if nude and were not such immodest whores and if we did more to Islamise our society in general we would all get along.....

I'm sure your know I can post some PEW stats about the wider views of Muslims in the UK if you think I'm cherry picking....

 

[ChroniC]

Now thats a can of worms statement if ever I saw one.
Regardless of the whores Why should any nation change to meet the requires of a work of fiction?
It's like saying we should all start dressing more like Lord of the Rings so that crazy film fans don't get out of the wrong side of bed.

 

[asim18]

200000 per year is a huge number, it’s not so much the immigrants, it’s the infrastructure, the schools, the NHS is not upgraded to cope with the extra numbers. It leads to resentment of immigrants as we see now.

I didn't realise it was a "per year" figure, I thought it was 200,000 over a certain period of years. You're right that is a rather considerable amount.



Sorry I'm not an expert on immigration, but don't most immigrants need to be sponsored by someone? I think one solution, or at least partial mitigation, is that people doing the sponsoring should be held more responsible for who they ask to bring in to the country.

Maybe people who are sponsoring should have to pay an extra tax for several years, or until they can prove the immigrant is doing something positive.

 

[dowie]

Seems he isn't known by MI5, I wonder if it will come out that he's been radicalised online by ISIS videos etc.. perhaps not so satisfied with his new life in the west etc...

That is perhaps a bit of a worry in general with say migrants/asylum seekers who are mostly male - too many males and not enough females for them can be a volatile combination in general. Throw some Islam into the mix and the potential for a frustrated young man to start getting into the more extreme parts of the religion and you have your potential terrorist.

 

[IronWarrior]

What magical new areas of land are available for extensive new builds that aren't 'rural'

Finding land isn't really the problem, there is a lot of undeveloped land or brownfield land that is available. Almost every town and city has that available.

 

[builder22]

not gonna read full thread but the first page is just whack

 

[Amp34]

Arent like 90% of these raids just for show? I swear i read somewhere that the vast majority are let go after whatever pointless mirage they have at their local police station to dazzle them with. I wouldn't put it past the Home Office to have a guideline that simply makes it appear like the Police are doing something, even if it's totally pointless in reality. Seems to be a trope with this government (indeed many governments) since it came in.

Known to police in this instance normally means they’re on a terrorist watch list, perhaps I’m wrong though, maybe he just has an unrelated criminal record.

The problem is the terrorist watch list is not restricted to Muslims, rather any potential terrorist, with about a third being far right extremists.

 

[Amp34]

Is circa 200-300k net immigrants in the UK sustainable or desirable.

Exactly how may is too many?

Sustainable? No.

Desirable? Depends whose “desiring”. For governments and businesses the increased population helps growth, especially GDP. For the general population, depends entirely on specific circumstances - for some it’s positive, for some it’s negative, for some it makes no difference. For the young it’s going to be needed to pay for their welfare/pensions when they get older.

If we truly want to decrease net immigration then we need to move to a different economic model, or at the very least have different methods of gauging “success” - get rid of GDP and import/export growth and replace it with the happiness index perhaps? The whole system is just a ponzi scheme, it’ll be interesting to see what happens at the end of this century (not that we’ll be alive) when the worldwide population is predicted to peak.

 

[robgmun]

I didn't realise it was a "per year" figure, I thought it was 200,000 over a certain period of years. You're right that is a rather considerable amount.

It's been a heck of a lot more than 200,000 per year, all governments since 1997 lost control of the situation

And you wonder why people kicked off and voted for brexit

 

[asim18]

It's been a heck of a lot more than 200,000 per year, all governments since 1997 lost control of the situation

And you wonder why people kicked off and voted for brexit

I dont wonder why people voted for Brexit I know exactly why people voted for Brexit. But most if not all Muslim countries are outside the EU so I don't think it's stopped any Muslims.

 

[Caracus2k]

But most if not all Muslim countries are outside the EU so I don't think it's stopped any Muslims.

Free movement within the EU has facilitated the secondary movement of tens of thousands of Muslims into the Uk

Indeed, we met so many Nigerians from Germany, or Somalis from Denmark, that we asked Oxford University's Migration Observatory to crunch the numbers on how many EU migrants are not originally from Europe. They found that 141,000 people, 7% of those who came to the UK under EU rules were born outside the continent. Somalis are one of the biggest such groups, with an estimated 20,000 coming to the UK from the Netherlands alone.

 

[Hagar]

Finding land isn't really the problem, there is a lot of undeveloped land or brownfield land that is available. Almost every town and city has that available.

Then you need also to increase local services, shops, doctors, dentists, provide new and upgraded roads and transport links, new or upgraded power stations, electricity gas and water supply, waste water and sewage treatment, reservoirs etc. The UK is high on the list of most people per sq. km anyway.

 

[MookJong]

I dont wonder why people voted for Brexit I know exactly why people voted for Brexit. But most if not all Muslim countries are outside the EU so I don't think it's stopped any Muslims.

To take back control of immigration policy and refute the pressure from the EU to take migrants in.

 

[VincentHanna]

Seems he isn't known by MI5, I wonder if it will come out that he's been radicalised online by ISIS videos etc.. perhaps not so satisfied with his new life in the west etc...

That is perhaps a bit of a worry in general with say migrants/asylum seekers who are mostly male - too many males and not enough females for them can be a volatile combination in general. Throw some Islam into the mix and the potential for a frustrated young man to start getting into the more extreme parts of the religion and you have your potential terrorist.

To me they not dissimilar to all these Incel types on the internet. Albeit with religion brainwashing them.

 

[MookJong]

It all depends if you want to keep each nations history and heritage alive or if you think that it can be forgotten now in favour of a society where every individual does their own thing culturally. I don't see any way to really integrate established immigrant communities without horrible draconian measures.

The politicians and the media have failed to engage on this topic. It is very sensitive and it's easier to pretend everything is rosy with multiculturalism. However everything isn't perfect, there are issues clearly and we need to find a path through it. I honestly don't think Western governments know how to tackle the topic.

The reaction from the historically native populations when not shown an alternative future is to just regress and try and go back to the way things were. Sweden is currently going through this and it will be interesting to see what happens there.

Birmingham is our great experiment, by 2022 it will be majority immigrant. I think what happens there will show us if mass immigration and a multicultural society can really work for us or not.