Indian Grand Prix 2011, Buddh International Circuit - Race 17/19

[Skeeter]

Yep, the two-compound rule has deprived us of some genuine surprises in the results - Sauber being one of those teams well-placed to try and pull that sort of thing off.

I'm not convinced.

I think the argument against the 2 compound rule is a bit blinkered. With everyone on the same tyre, teams will naturally converge on what they feel is the better strategy, which mean we will end up with what we had through most of the 2000's of everyone stopping within a lap or 2 of each other and no real strategy differences.

Having 2 or 3 tyre compounds available with no requirement to use specific ones could open up the racing, but the cost involved in producing and shipping all the tyres that would then go unused would not look good for the FIA's 'green' image, so wont be happening any time soon.

 

[FrankJH]

The new tires are crap imho how can a real racing driver push the car if the tires give up after 10-15 laps?

But lets look at the facts shall we
2007 won by Kimi by 1 point
2008 won by Lewis by 1 point
2009 won by Jenson by 11 points
2010 won vettel by 4 points
All the above was on Brigestone

2011 won by vettel by 134 and it's still going,this season is a joke.Ditch the DRS and Kers and give the car back to the driver.

At least make a realistic comparison, there have only been 25 points for a race win for a single season - so 2007 - 2009 are completely irrelevant

Its also pretty rash to blame the tyres when a fundamental reason for the large gap this year are the obvious gaps between the Ferrari / McLaren performance and the Red bull (dont know about the Ferrari, but the McLaren having to scrap their exhaust just before the 1st race cant have helped the performance difference)

Also there were big technical changes at the beginning of last year which RB made the most of (fair play to them) - at the start of this season it was much more of the same (apart from the tyre changes) so any advantage they had would naturally be extended. At the end of 2013 the pack will bunch up again due to the massive reg changes expected then also

Other problem with the "2 compound rule" is the 2 compounds are always too similar. They should have pretty hard tyres, and soft flimsy tyres. Not this soft and super soft jazz.

The difference between the two needs to be really noticable, to bring strategy back into it imo.

I could have sworn there was a reg (still in place) that there HAD to be at least one compound between the two supplied for each race - I didnt imagine this did I?

 

[Weebull]

The thing is though, the "two compound" rule was established to force a bit of pit stop action after they banned refuelling, but before anyone was overtaking on the track. Now we have the latter, it does feel like there's virtually no point to it.

I sometimes wonder if I'm alone in thinking that the introduction of pitlane speed limits completely screwed up the show....virtually all the problems of race strategy can be traced back to it simply taking too long to change tyres. And isn't it funny how you very rarely saw unsafe releases when cars could drive at speed down the pitlane....seems like you see a car released into the path of another one every other race now.

Oh no, I've definitely thought that for a while. Without the ability to just dive in and pit in 10-15 seconds, you lose that ability to be a bit daring and adventurous in your pits.

Although I suppose, thinking about it, if you had another situation like Monaco (prior to the red flag), where your leader is running far inferior tires, it would be a lot easier to call him in and swap a fresh pair on before his chasers catch up, potentially depriving us of a good finish. Even though we were anyway .

 

[Weebull]

I could have sworn there was a reg (still in place) that there HAD to be at least one compound between the two supplied for each race - I didnt imagine this did I?

See, that's what I thought too. I said to my Dad during the race that I was sure this was a rule, but they've run Soft and Super-Soft at a few races now, haven't they? I just assumed it must have been an unofficial Pirelli rule.

 

[El_Watcher]

Although I suppose, thinking about it, if you had another situation like Monaco (prior to the red flag), where your leader is running far inferior tires, it would be a lot easier to call him in and swap a fresh pair on before his chasers catch up, potentially depriving us of a good finish. Even though we were anyway .

But if you look at it the other way, without speed limits the Mclaren and Ferrari would have probably been closer to Vettel anyway, due to their stops being shorter previously.

 

[NathanE]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/11/01/herbert-explains-massas-penalty-knew-hamilton/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95841

Lewis needs to do one of two things:

Either try to straighten things out with Felipe, like properly.

Or hope and pray that Felipe isn't in a mid-front field car next year where he has a high chance of being able to ruin another season for Lewis.

 

[Skeeter]

There is no rule about which compounds of tyre should be used, or if there should be a 1 compound gap in them. Pirelli just stated that they would try and do that wherever possible to spice up the racing.

 

[deuse]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/11/01/herbert-explains-massas-penalty-knew-hamilton/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95841

 

[Mr Jack]

The thing is though, the "two compound" rule was established to force a bit of pit stop action after they banned refuelling, but before anyone was overtaking on the track. Now we have the latter, it does feel like there's virtually no point to it.

And with the Bridgestone's that you could do a whole race on. With the better designed Pirelli tyres, people would need to stop anyway.

It's a rule out of water; it's just not needed anymore.

 

[Skeeter]

I think there needs to be a wider look at tyres throughout the whole weekend, not just during the race. We have clearly seen how the current allocation of tyres can badly effect qualifying, and also if you get wet practice sessions teams tend to not go out and save their wet tyres.

F1 fans should not be robbed of on track action simply because there isn't enough tyres.

 

[Duke]

There is no rule about which compounds of tyre should be used, or if there should be a 1 compound gap in them. Pirelli just stated that they would try and do that wherever possible to spice up the racing.

Yep, they can bring whichever two compounds they want to.

 

[deuse]

And with the Bridgestone's that you could do a whole race on. With the better designed Pirelli tyres, people would need to stop anyway.

Take Nigel Mansell when he and the team stayed out and took a chance.
It did not work out(he lost the title) but that's what we love about him and senna ect they will take a chance.

Where as now you don't have to be a racing driver you just have to look after tires which is boring.

I would love to see tires that last say 45 of a 60 lap race. Do you come in for new tires or take a chance
would the guy behind you come in to get better lap times or take a chance on staying out?

Also no more turning the engines down to save fuel.

 

[Skeeter]

I would love to see tires that last say 45 of a 60 lap race. Do you come in for new tires or take a chance
would the guy behind you come in to get better lap times or take a chance on staying out?

You would do 30 laps, pit, and do another 30 laps, as would everyone else.

What you need is, as has been said, a hard set that is 1.5 seconds a lap slower but will go 20 laps longer than the soft tyre. Pirrelli have almost managed this at some races, but the requirement to use both compounds does force people onto the same strategy.

You know what, I'm coming round to this idea now.... How about this:

You have 2 compounds like now, you give the teams 2 extra sets of the soft tyre to allow them to use in Q1 and Q2 so that there is no sitting in the garage in Q3 saving tyres. Q3 will then be a flatout blast for the fastest time. You don't have to start on the tyres you qualify on, you can choose, and you don't have to use both compounds during the race. However, the hard tyre will only do about 60% distance, while the soft is 30% max. Do you one stop on the hard, or 3 stop on the soft?

 

[JRS]

You know what, I'm coming round to this idea now.... How about this:

You have 2 compounds like now, you give the teams 2 extra sets of the soft tyre to allow them to use in Q1 and Q2 so that there is no sitting in the garage in Q3 saving tyres. Q3 will then be a flatout blast for the fastest time. You don't have to start on the tyres you qualify on, you can choose, and you don't have to use both compounds during the race. However, the hard tyre will only do about 60% distance, while the soft is 30% max. Do you one stop on the hard, or 3 stop on the soft?

Or if you have a car that uses its tyres up, you could two-stop on the hard tyre saving yourself a stop over the soft tyre runners, and letting you play to the strengths of your car and drive harder than the one-stopping hard tyre runners. Suddenly, options are opened up that are completely missing right now

Also has the advantage of making getting into Q3 worth it even if you're not in the fight for the front three rows....

 

[deuse]

You would do 30 laps, pit, and do another 30 laps, as would everyone else.

But would you?
Say you was in the lead the guy behind has stopped on lap 30. You now have a 30sec lead(pit stop)+his slow first lap or so getting the tires up to speed.
You know your tires will last to lap 45 so for the last 15 laps you can slow down by 1 secs a lap but the guy behind will have to speed up by 1.5 secs a lap to catch you.

It brings a lot into the mix which we are missing now.There has to be away to fix F1 as they are going around in circles atm

 

[FrankJH]

See, that's what I thought too. I said to my Dad during the race that I was sure this was a rule, but they've run Soft and Super-Soft at a few races now, haven't they? I just assumed it must have been an unofficial Pirelli rule.

I should have put in my original post that now its mentioned I do recall soft's and super softs being used at the same race a few times

 

[Skeeter]

Also has the advantage of making getting into Q3 worth it even if you're not in the fight for the front three rows....

This for me is the biggest problem with the tyres at the moment. They have totally borked Q3 of you aren't looking to be on the front couple of rows. The excitement of having 10 cars going flat out and all crossing the finish line a few seconds apart at the end of the session has gone. There were a few where things were happening so thick and fast that the commentator could hardly describe one guys lap finishing before the next one came along. Qualifying used to build to a fast and furious crescendo, now it just sort of fizzles out with a few cars out at the end.

 

[sunama]

Oh and anyone who thinks Vettel romping away with the title this year is down to tyres or strategy or fuel or anything like that is utterly deluded. Red Bull produced a great car, and Vettel has been largely flawless and incredibly quick at driving the thing.

Damn straight.

To break all those records, both driver AND machine have to be top class. One without the other (as we are seeing with Webber) and no records will be broken.

I'm getting jealous that Germany, once again have a great driver who can take on all-comers. I really expected Hamilton to be in Vettel's position, but sadly, this hasn't happened.

Just once, I wish that England could have the best man in his sport, who no one can get close to. A tennis player, a footballer, an F1 driver, a track athlete....just 1 guy.

 

[Mr Jack]

Also has the advantage of making getting into Q3 worth it even if you're not in the fight for the front three rows....

Simply getting rid of the pointless rule that they have to carry the tyres through from Q3 to the race would do that. Although, personally I go further and give them separate tyre allocations for practice, quali and race.

 

[Skeeter]

Simply getting rid of the pointless rule that they have to carry the tyres through from Q3 to the race would do that. Although, personally I go further and give them separate tyre allocations for practice, quali and race.

Its not the rule on using the tyres they used in Q3 thats the problem, its the simple fact that they don't have enough tyres. If they go flat out in all 3 qualifying sessions they will use up all of their tyres, meaning they go into the race with only used tyres. The lure of a set of brand new option tyres outweighs the difference between starting 10th or possibly starting 7th.