Indonesia Executions
- Thread starter Vern1961
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Man of Honour
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I'm a bit torn.
From a point of view I think to myself, you were in their country and you knew their stand on this sort of thing, and the risks associated with it, yet you still did the crime (we don't know what motivated them to do it though).
That said, execution does not sit comfortably with me at all and I find it a pretty archaic way of dealing with problems. The news reports said that they were caught in 2005(?) so they have had 10 years nearly to wait for their day of execution. In that time they could have turned their lives around - from the reports they have said that they have been behaving well in prison, doing all the chores/tasks, respectful and remorseful for what they have done.
It's a pretty brutal and sledgehammer approach to dealing with a problem. Sure they were criminals, but I imagine 10 years in an Indonesian prison probably wasn't pleasant. Firing squad isn't exactly humane either - having a body riddled with bullets is pretty grim.
I do feel sorry for their family, and friends - we don't know the circumstances that made them turn to behaving in this way to actually smuggling drugs - that said they should still be punished for it, but taking their lives? No I can't agree with that.
From a point of view I think to myself, you were in their country and you knew their stand on this sort of thing, and the risks associated with it, yet you still did the crime (we don't know what motivated them to do it though).
That said, execution does not sit comfortably with me at all and I find it a pretty archaic way of dealing with problems. The news reports said that they were caught in 2005(?) so they have had 10 years nearly to wait for their day of execution. In that time they could have turned their lives around - from the reports they have said that they have been behaving well in prison, doing all the chores/tasks, respectful and remorseful for what they have done.
It's a pretty brutal and sledgehammer approach to dealing with a problem. Sure they were criminals, but I imagine 10 years in an Indonesian prison probably wasn't pleasant. Firing squad isn't exactly humane either - having a body riddled with bullets is pretty grim.
I do feel sorry for their family, and friends - we don't know the circumstances that made them turn to behaving in this way to actually smuggling drugs - that said they should still be punished for it, but taking their lives? No I can't agree with that.
That is your opinion and I respect it. I've got no time for law breakers of druggies. Scum of the earth.
It costs in total £100,000 a year to keep a criminal in prison.
My local hospice is trying to get £85,000 for the kids to make their a little better before the die.
Now which one would any good citizen chose? a dying child or a druggie?
^this +10.
Very sad for the families of the deceased which should have been what stopped them doing it in the first place.
I am all for capital punishment when there is no doubt that the crime was committed.
Turning a reformed criminal into a tax paying citizen would be better for everyone, rather than just killing them.
I'm not saying you're wrong about it costing £100,000 per prisoner per year as I'm sure you've got this figure from somewhere, but the maths don't seem right to me. Say it costs £5,000 a year to feed them (as a broad figure). Say there's 1 member of prison staff (guard/ cook/ cleaner etc) per 10 inmates earning say £30k a year (which is £40k to employer). That's £4k contribution per inmate for the staff. That just leaves the building itself and utilities and I don't see that costing each and every inmate £91,000 per year.
Anywhere that the risk/reward scale is sufficiently skewed in favour of the reward will result in the risk being ignored.
I'm not really against the death penalty but its a very complex issue. I don't see why a country should have to foot the bill for someones lifelong imprisonment.
At the end of the day you won't put everyone off committing a crime in a country that has the death penalty because no one ever intends to get caught. If you can get paid more in a single weeks work as a drugs mule than 5 years of working legitimately its quite an incentive.
I'm not really against the death penalty but its a very complex issue. I don't see why a country should have to foot the bill for someones lifelong imprisonment.
At the end of the day you won't put everyone off committing a crime in a country that has the death penalty because no one ever intends to get caught. If you can get paid more in a single weeks work as a drugs mule than 5 years of working legitimately its quite an incentive.
Except you don't know how long it will take for them to get reformed or if they ever will reform.
An early bullet definitely guarantees you have one less drug dealer/junkie in the world and is probably more cost effective.
I have absolutely no sympathy for the 2 ring leaders who were executed, how many lives did they affect before they were caught? Did they give any thought to their victims before they were caught? Probably not as the reward was great for them.
And what happens when they reoffend? from 2011
"Some 90% of those sentenced in England and Wales had offended before - and almost a third had committed or were linked to 15 or more crimes"
2001: 29% of offenders2006: 38% of offenders2009: 40% of offenders2011: 44% of offenders http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18188610
2013
"A total of 495,162 offences were committed by 171,949 offenders, 82% of whom were adults, within a year of them being released from jail, convicted, cautioned or warned over drugs in the period."
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And what happens when they reoffend? from 2011
"Some 90% of those sentenced in England and Wales had offended before - and almost a third had committed or were linked to 15 or more crimes"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18188610
Sadly it seems to be that only when a loved one dies to a stupid decision in life will you understand the repercussions of this.
Associate
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How do you know they will become tax paying citizens and not a drain on the tax payer?
A criminal is much more likely to commit another crime than a non-criminal. We are talking about large scale crimes here, not getting caught smoking weed behind a shed. If a person has the genetic/environmental composition enabling them to break the law in the first place, there is a high chance they will do it again. These people know the risks and still choose to do it.
Associate
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You mean when a loved one is raped and killed by a home invader who's up on death row is the time you start believing the death penalty can be just?
Soldato
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Not really that often.
With the estimated 2.7 million people who take recreational (illegal) drugs in the UK, there are ~2000 deaths due to it : 0.074%. Most of that is overdosing with Heroin, which in itself is a small % of the overall recreational drug use, and that is down to the fact there is no control over purity.
So really, mostly often people take their recreational drugs, have a good time, and continue with their productive lives normally
I meant in regards to drug trafficking.
Probably because our prison systems promote a culture of drug use and violence.
I didn't say it was an easy or cheap to begin to change things. Unfortunately 'more money for prisons' isn't a big vote winner so I doubt the trend in the numbers you quoted is going to turn around.
Soldato
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Fill them with more minor wrongdoers. It's not a difficult concept, you know...
We're talking about drug smuggling, not rape or murder. In those cases I do support capital punishment provided the evidence is clear. I did touch on this earlier in the thread: