Indonesia Executions

[StriderX]

Always wrong. The state should never be able to decide who lives and dies. A totally barbaric act, that thankfully is in decline.

So you would let a criminal organisation decide for you instead?

Not to disagree, but that is a soft point that seems to justify it to Indonesians.

 

[thebennyboy]

So what if new evidence is presented proving that they're innocent? Can't exactly bring them back from the dead.

 

[eatcustard]

Shoot all drug dealers and drug takers (Class A drugs takers), simple and effective.

 

[StriderX]

So what if new evidence is presented proving that they're innocent? Can't exactly bring them back from the dead.

Then they made a stupid decision about globally illegal drugs and not consulting even a quick check on the internet about a nations general choice for criminals, is asking for a bit more than a slap.

Its evil and malicious, but a world full of carebears, is one id rather do without.

 

[deuse]

People should also realise that "nice" executions cost hugely, california has to pay more than a quarter of a billion every single year for like 12 executions.

That's why(and they cant get the drugs) in Utah they've brought back a firing squad. Other states will follow.

 

[Freefaller]

If they totes guilty then I'd pull the trigger myself

It's a shame you think it would be easy and "fun" to take someone's life, no matter what their crimes.

 

[SquirrelMadness]

We're talking about drug smuggling, not rape or murder. In those cases I do support capital punishment provided the evidence is clear. I did touch on this earlier in the thread:

Fair enough. But drug smuggling can be just as serious as murder, if not more serious, since it affects large quantities of people - not only those already addicted to drugs but those on the virge of developing new addictions which will ruin their lives. Small scale trafficking... small punishment, large scale trafficking... large punishment seems just.

 

[Sunbed]

Shoot all drug dealers and drug takers (Class A drugs takers), simple and effective.

So, shoot a hefty proportion of the student population then? Yeh can't see any problems there.

 

[Crpwned]

That's why(and they cant get the drugs) in Utah they've brought back a firing squad. Other states will follow.

They don't give the death penalty for drug related offenses in America from what I can find so how is that relevant?

Capital crimes in the US that can get the death penalty -

Spoiler

The Bureau of Justice Statistics, Capital Punishment 2012, (pub. May 2014) lists the following as capital crimes, by state:


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Alabama - Intentional murder with 18 aggravating factors (Ala. Stat. Ann. 13A-5-40(a)(1)-(18)).

Arizona - First-degree murder, including pre-meditated murder and felony murder, accompanied by at least 1 of 14 aggravating factors (A.R.S. § 13-703(F)).

Arkansas - Capital murder (Ark. Code Ann. 5-10-101) with a finding of at least 1 of 10 aggravating circumstances; treason.

California - First-degree murder with special circumstances; sabotage; train wrecking causing death; treason; perjury causing execution of an innocent person; fatal assault by a prisoner serving a life sentence.

Colorado - First-degree murder with at least 1 of 17 aggravating factors; first-degree kidnapping resulting in death; treason.

Connecticut - [Abolished the death penalty in 2012]

Delaware - First-degree murder (11 Del. C. § 636) with at least 1 statutory aggravating circumstance (11 Del. C. § 4209).

Florida - First-degree murder; felony murder; capital drug trafficking; capital sexual battery.

Georgia - Murder with aggravating circumstances; kidnapping with bodily injury or ransom when the victim dies; aircraft hijacking; treason.

Idaho - First-degree murder with aggravating factors; first-degree kidnapping; perjury resulting in the execution of an innocent person.

Illinois - [Abolished the death penalty in 2011]

Indiana - Murder with 16 aggravating circumstances (IC 35-50-2-9).

Kansas - Capital murder with 8 aggravating circumstances (KSA 21-3439, KSA 21-4625, KSA 21-4636).

Kentucky - Capital murder with the presence of at least one statutory aggravating circumstance; capital kidnapping (KRS 532.025).

Louisiana - First-degree murder; treason (La. R.S. 14:30 and 14:113).

Maryland - [Abolished the death penalty in 2013]

Mississippi - Capital murder (Miss. Code Ann. § 97-3-19(2)); aircraft piracy (Miss. Code Ann. § 97-25-55(1)).

Missouri - First-degree murder (565.020 RSMO 2000).

Montana - Capital murder with 1 of 9 aggravating circumstances (Mont. Code Ann. § 46-18-303); aggravated kidnapping; felony murder; aggravated sexual intercourse without consent (Mont. Code Ann. § 45-5-503).

Nebraska - First-degree murder with a finding of at least 1 statutorily-defined aggravating circumstance.

Nevada - First-degree murder with at least 1 of 15 aggravating circumstances (NRS 200.030, 200.033, 200.035).

New Hampshire - Murder committed in the course of rape, kidnapping, drug crimes, or burglary; killing of a police officer, judge or prosecutor; murder for hire; murder by an inmate while serving a sentence of life without parole (RSA 630:1, RSA 630:5).

New Mexico - [abolished the death penalty in 2009]

New York* - [New York abolished the death penalty in 2007]

North Carolina - First-degree murder (NCGS §14-17) with the finding of at least 1 of 11 statutory aggravating circumstances (NCGS §15A-2000).

Ohio - Aggravated murder with at least 1 of 10 aggravating circumstances (O.R.C. secs. 2903.01, 2929.02, and 2929.04).

Oklahoma - First-degree murder in conjunction with a finding of at least 1 of 8 statutorily-defined aggravating circumstances.

Oregon - Aggravated murder (ORS 163.095).

Pennsylvania - First-degree murder with 18 aggravating circumstances.

South Carolina - Murder with 1 of 12 aggravating circumstances (§ 16-3-20(C)(a))

South Dakota - First-degree murder with 1 of 10 aggravating circumstances.

Tennessee - First-degree murder (Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-13-202) with 1 of 16 aggravating circumstances (Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-13-204).

Texas - Criminal homicide with 1 of 9 aggravating circumstances (Tex. Penal Code § 19.03).

Utah - Aggravated murder (76-5-202, Utah Code Annotated).

Virginia - First-degree murder with 1 of 15 aggravating circumstances (VA Code § 18.2-31).

Washington - Aggravated first-degree murder.

Wyoming - First-degree murder; murder during the commission of sexual assault, sexual abuse of a minor, arson, robbery, burglary, escape, resisting arrest, kidnapping, or abuse of a minor under 16. (W.S.A. § 6-2-101(a))


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Edit:

Shoot all drug dealers and drug takers (Class A drugs takers), simple and effective.

Dumbest thing I've read today so congratulations on that one.

 

[Glaucus]

So you would let a criminal organisation decide for you instead?

Not to disagree, but that is a soft point that seems to justify it to Indonesians.

What a rubbish argument with nothing to back it up.

What on earth do you mean let criminals decide, what a silly statement.
It's not soft at all. We need a Scandinavian style system, that has one of the highest success rates in the world. And can still lock people up for live if needed.

So don't try to pull the soft card, to defend a silly position.
Death penalty costs more.
It's never 100% as proved many times by innocent people being murdered by the state.
It has no place in a moral and modern society, it breads all the wrong ideas and feelings, of which many can be seen in this very thread.

 

[lemonade]

It's not nice, death is never nice, but if your gonna do the crime then expect to do the time, or in this case death, good riddance, scums like these tear society apart.

 

[StriderX]

What a rubbish argument with nothing to back it up.

What on earth do you mean let criminals decide, what a silly statement.
It's not soft at all. We need a Scandinavian style system, that has one of the highest success rates in the world. And can still lock people up for live if needed.

So don't try to pull the soft card, to defend a silly position.

Executions are a silly option, which requires silly justifications.

I cannot obviously back it up, but if the level of drugs coming in reduces, that would imply that less people are killed by overdoses and the like by "criminals".

Of course Drug addiction makes that a moot point, but one must realise a general populace's ideology before defeating it.

 

[Glaucus]

Executions are a silly option, which requires silly justifications.

I cannot obviously back it up, but if the level of drugs coming in reduces, that would imply that less people are killed by overdoses and the like by "criminals".

Of course Drug addiction makes that a moot point, but one must realise a general populace's ideology before defeating it.

It's been proved time and again that capital punishment is not a deterrent so have a rethink. People simply don't think they will get caught, or are so desperate that the penalty is meaningless.

But yes lets just kill desperate people or and innocent people wrongly accused which has happened many many times. Such a nice mind set to have. Lets kill criminals most of which have had no childhood, rather than rehabilitation that can and does work very well.

 

[cheesyboy]

I cannot obviously back it up, but if the level of drugs coming in reduces, that would imply that less people are killed by overdoses and the like by "criminals".

What actually happens is the drugs get cut increasingly with unknown substances, thus increasing the risk to users - more deaths, and the price goes up.

And what happens when the price goes up? Users struggle more with paying, potentially increasing crime, and more suppliers enter the market.

 

[Sankari]

 

[Basher]

That is your opinion and I respect it. I've got no time for law breakers of druggies. Scum of the earth.

It costs in total £100,000 a year to keep a criminal in prison.

My local hospice is trying to get £85,000 for the kids to make their a little better before the die.

Now which one would any good citizen chose? a dying child or a druggie?

I believe there was a study in the US that demonstrated is was actually cheaper to keep someone in prison that it was to kill them.

 

[lemonade]

What actually happens is the drugs get cut increasingly with unknown substances, thus increasing the risk to users - more deaths, and the price goes up.

And what happens when the price goes up? Users struggle more with paying, potentially increasing crime, and more suppliers enter the market.

If your gonna take drugs then you can expect that, don't expect others to give a s*** for the problems you choose to have.

 

[panthro]

With regards to the pair of Australians, I am really struggling with whether or not it was wrong to execute them. A life jail term would be more appropriate. However they were behind a smuggling ring so I wouldn't expect any leniency.

With regards to the Filipino lady, who thankfully was spared at the last minute, it would have been totally wrong if she was executed. The facts point to her being a (possibly unknowing) mule, who is impoverished and desperate for money. She clearly didn't understand the mavity of what she was doing when someone told her to take the suitcase. Past precedence should have taken place with previous convicts being jailed and not executed. Proper interpretation was also not provided by the Indonesian government when she was interrogated.

I'm going to Bali in a few months and I am now super paranoid about my luggage being tampered with

 

[cheesyboy]

If your gonna take drugs then you can expect that, don't expect others to give a *** for the problems you choose to have.

Others should give a ****. Because the problems of drug users spill over into society at large. Even ignoring the morality of actually giving any kind of a **** about your fellow man.

And how sensible is it for government to have a policy which actually increases harm to its citizens?

Take ecstasy; the drug is practically harmless, if appropriate education is given to its use, but every so often there will be a dodgy batch which kills or seriously injures dozens of users. Government policy should be to reduce harm - but it's their policy of prohibition which introduces the harm. It's nonsense.

 

[Judgeneo]

I'm against the death penalty personally, but its their country, their rules. You don't go into that business without knowing the punishments are severe.