Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 'Arrow Lake' Discussion/News ("15th gen") on LGA-1851

[Dave2150]

I'd much rather have proper cores, no e cores or hyperthreading.

Personally I don't really care what type of cores I have, I just care about performance.

I've two systems that I use daily. 13900k for work and 7950X3D for games. Both perform very well, on a fully up to date W11 OS install with modern applications. Both are stable.

I think the majority of issues come from people that can't move on and insist on using old OS (Windows 10 etc), old software, or those that struggle to install the correct drivers/software.

It is getting a little more complicated to get the best performance out of the box these days, as it's not just a question of installing the latest software from the CD/DVD/vendor website. From my personal experience, most of these people will either buy a Mac, console or will use managed services (hardware hosted on the cloud, with provider doing the OS updates/drivers/etc).

 

[Dave2150]

another article, similar content.

Intel announces cancellation of 20A process node for Arrow Lake, goes with external nodes instead, likely TSMC [Updated]

Out with the Intel node, in with TSMC.

www.tomshardware.com

Bad news for AMD - since this will push up prices for TSMC nodes. Intel's probably happy to swallow the loss of margin on the flagship SKU's if it means a return to leadership in terms of performance and equal or better performance per watt compared to Zen5.

 

[Dave2150]

seeing is believing.
various things can happen. whether it will or not is fairy dust. it's up to whether resources in r and d are deployed to develop those new products. last i heard it was nixxed. tomorrow, later today after lunch who knows. perhaps theyll revive the projects. they have to come up with something. or not. up to them.

Intel reportedly dismantles Jim Keller's revolutionary Royal Core project and cancels Beast Lake

Intel has reportedly canceled the upcoming Beast Lake architecture according to a new leak. According to past reports, Beast Lake had a considerable focus on single-core performance. In addition to canceling Beast Lake, the report from Moore’s Law Is Dead also claims that we may not see the...

www.notebookcheck.net

it was Jim Keller's baby supposedly. but this is old news. on again off again. who knows?

Royal Core will be something very special IMO, as Jim Keller is just that good. Look what he did to Zen while he was at AMD, and what AMD did with the plans he left in place before he left.

 

[Dave2150]

Box art looks good, but white plastic insert looks a bit naff. 12900k gold wafer was the pinnacle of box design!

 

[Dave2150]

Important Dates:

Intel Core Ultra 200 embargoes & dates​

• October 7th – Non Public – Pre-Launch Press Briefing with Robert Hallock and Roger Chandler
• October 10th – Public – Announcement
• October 24th – Public – Reviews and Sales

Intel confirms Core Ultra 200 announcement on October 10th, reviews two weeks later - VideoCardz.com

Intel Arrow Lake-S incoming The next-gen Intel desktop CPUs launching this month. The CPU maker has confirmed the release date of its new desktop CPU series, which also marks the introduction of Intel’s new desktop platform featuring the LGA-1851 socket, succeeding the 3-year-old LGA-1700...

videocardz.com

Asus Z890 Boards

ASUS next-gen Intel Z890 motherboards pictured: ROG Maximus, ROG Strix, TUF and Prime models - VideoCardz.com

ASUS Z890 Series Pictured New boards for Intel Core Ultra 200K series. In just about a week, Intel will finally disclose its Core Ultra 200 series for the next-generation desktop platform. This will be the first desktop generation from Intel carrying a new naming scheme, already known from...

videocardz.com

That Apex is looking nice

APEX looks lovely, likely the one I'm going for. Though expect it'll mean a few weeks/months wait for stock as always

 

[Dave2150]

Intel Core Ultra 9 285K tops PassMark’s single thread ranking​

Intel Core Ultra 9 285K tops PassMark's single thread ranking - VideoCardz.com

Intel Core Ultra 9 285K is now the fastest CPU in single-core PassMark’s ranking The CPU is 8% faster than the fastest Raptor Lake-S. Intel is about to announce its new desktop CPU series, known as Arrow Lake-S. Unofficially, this announcement will take place in just four days, with the fastest...

videocardz.com

 

[Dave2150]

Credit to Intel for doing honest marketing - admitting 14900K is faster in games is pretty wild! Unlike AMD's antics with Ryzen 9000 performance...

80W less for similar performance is a step in the right direction - but not good enough to get excited about, certainly not a generational increase or worth upgrading to compared to Zen 5X3D.

Zen5 X3D is the only logical choice for gamers, I've said previously I think it'll be the performance champion for at least 2 years.

 

[Dave2150]

Arrow Lake seems a misstep so far to me.

It's a step in the right direction - this is Intel's first attempt at chiplets for desktop. AMD have far more experience doing chiplets.

 

[Dave2150]

Are Intel so amateur now that they have to be congratulated on something that AMD achieved 5 years ago? Go back that long and Intel were considered the best semiconductor company in the world. Nowadays their fabs are deadweight and their designs are barely faster than AMD despite a big node advantage.

Times change. No king rules forever etc etc.

AMD had a great few years with Jim Keller's designs for Zen. He left plans for the next few iterations of Zen, which now appear to be fizzling out. Zen4 - Zen5 has been pretty disappointing - were it not for 3Dcache on the X3D parts, AMD would already be in trouble with Arrow Lake.

I imagine Intel will reach parity with AMD with their next gen after Arrow Lake and then probably succeed them - as now the process gap has been eliminated. Intel just need to work on optimising the chiplet design and possibly adding their own version of 3D Cache, as games just love that huge L3.

Either way, as I've mentioned a few times on this forum, it's my belief that Zen5 X3D (9800X3D & 9950X3D) will be the gaming performance flagships for at least 2 years from now.

 

[Dave2150]

I might have it wrong as I wasn't paying much attention but IIRC Zen 5 isn't an evolution of Zen 4, that will be Zen 6, Zen 5 I believe is more an evolution of Zen 3 (which in many was has ended up reinventing the Zen 4 wheel).

Which probably somewhat explains why the latency was messed up on release :s

They're all based on the core Zen architecture that Jim Keller lead the development on. Can safely call them all revisions expanding the base design.

When Jim Keller left, it was reported that he'd left plans for the next few 'generations' - as I understand it these have now been depleted, which may explain the disappointing difference between Zen4 and 5.

 

[Dave2150]

Only really power efficiency gains over 14th gen and no real performance gains. the AI stuff laying dormant for future use remains to be seen.

Not really a worthwhile upgrade for me from my 12700KF which is nicely suited for gaming and productivity as it is whilst being very power efficient, even mated to a 4090 where game benches match or beat stock 4090 benches on later model CPUs at 4K (I'm undervolted and OCd).

7800X3D, 7950X3D are faster in games than Arrow Lake.

9800X3D and 9950X3D will be 10-25% faster, Arrow lake is not worth considering for gaming IMO.

 

[Dave2150]

I genuinely have zero interest in going AMD for a platform upgrade, though isn't gaming perf directly related to whether the 3D Vcache is supported or not in any given game, so if not then the gains over Intel are not quite the same.

In fact I won't be upgrading to either platform's latest until whatever chip I choose is proven to be power efficient, thermally efficient and performant all at the same time just like this 12700KF is. Ok the stability side of things took a full year to get there after launch but that's more on Gigabyte's BIOS updates than something CPU related so that kind of doesn't count in this context.

It's the reason I didn't bother with 13th or 14th gen either, needlessly more power hungry and dodged a bullet as they ended up timebombed lemons anyway

So really probably will skip another 2 gens of CPUs from either side. A 4090 has yet to make it into the ultra column on any game's system reqs, and a 12700K has only been in the ultra column for one game so far from memory, and I forgot what that game was even but it was for 4K .

7800X3D is incredibly efficient, checkout the reviews. 9800X3D should be the same, they put Intel's 12th, 13th and 14th gen to shame.

 

[Dave2150]

Fine for gaming, but the 7800X3D is similar performance wise to a 12700K for anything outside of gaming, and that is for the average - some stuff it is more contemporary with Intel 11th gen (offset by better than average performance in some areas the 3D cache can be applied). Personally I'd take higher power usage for more balanced performance.

I'm using a 7950X3D - it crushes a 12700k in MT performance as well as gaming performance and is much more power efficient. 9950X3D will be it's replacement, which will be the flagship for mixed workloads.

7950X3D is £578.99 @ OCUK and has been cheaper in last few months I believe, really a bargain considering it's performance.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel are dropping the ball by not having the more affordable B-series boards ready to go at launch since the actual CPUs are priced very competitively compared to Zen 5.

They have to be priced competitively, as they're inferior to Ryzen 9000X3D.

 

[Dave2150]

Z890 boards are crazy money, considering it's rumoured to be only a one generation socket/platform.

 

[Dave2150]

3D chips are only for gamers, what about everyone else who uses a PC and doesn't want to pay a premium for Vcache?

Common sense would dictate they'd just buy the best performing CPU for their workload at a price that suits them.

 

[Dave2150]

Is there any known substance to that rumour.?
Only this ArL up and coming CPU to use the Z890 board and socket.?

It's been leaked a few times now, it's probably true, like most of the rumours we get ahead of launches for these type of parts.

LGA-1851 was supposed to be for 2 generations, Meteor Lake and then Arrow Lake. Meteor Lake was cancelled, so that just leaves Arrow Lake. Dead platform on launch with crazy price boards = fail IMO.

While LGA-1851 is technically more advanced/superior to AM5, I'd still recommend buying AM5 over LGA-1851, as there's still a small chance of Zen6 being AM5.

 

[Dave2150]

If Intel came out with how long they'll support the socket would make the price of some of the boards more palatable.

All indications are that it's a one generation only chipset, since Meteor Lake was cancelled for desktop.

Maybe they'll make a +200mhz "refresh" but it won't be a new generation or new architecture.

 

[Dave2150]

Maybe this would be the direct competitor to the 9800x3D, it would be something to at least match it.

Not even Arrow Lake will match the gaming performance of 9800/9950X3D, so a LGA1700 refresh with 12P cores certainly won't - the IPC is just too low and TDP would be too high to maintain 14900k clocks even.

LGA1700 is dead - fastest CPU's for gaming on it are the 14900k/ks - which are much slower than the 9800X3D/9950X3D.

 

[Dave2150]

How do we know this, is the 9950X3D even out yet or coming anytime soon?

We know this as 7800X3D and 7950X3D are faster than 14900K/KS in most games. 9800X3D and 9950X3D will increase this lead.