Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

[Rroff]

The "CPU tests" are almost certainly Geekbench, because Statista lists it as a source.
We all know of course how fair and unbiased Geekbench is

There aren't a lot of good sources but enough different ones out there to get a reasonable picture. There is no metric where AMD is outselling Intel by 3 or 4 times in consumer markets, though in certain DIY segments AMD may be doing better than Intel.

 

[krooton]

Did/does this issue affect laptops, and if so, should any refurbed 13/14th gen laptops be avoided?

 

[Rroff]

Did/does this issue affect laptops, and if so, should any refurbed 13/14th gen laptops be avoided?

Mixed stories on that. According to Intel:

Intel® reaffirms that both Intel® Core™ 13th and 14th Gen mobile processors and future client product families – including the codename Lunar Lake and Arrow Lake families - are unaffected by the Vmin Shift Instability issue.

Albeit they only mention the Vmin Shift issue and don't rule out any other problems.

1-2, unverified, sources are claiming seeing it affecting at a high level 13900HX laptops but so far there aren't stories of wider failures of laptops which would support that - but possibly some early 13th gen laptops are affected by the oxidisation issue maybe.

 

[humbug]

It seems the problem with these CPU's is not just one thing, its earlier defective processing, the rusty CPU's... its a problem with the cache being pushed too hard to accommodate all the E-Cores and its generally that they are being pushed too hard out of the box.

That's why, weirdly even the 45 watt Laptop chips have issues.

 

[Tetras]

Did/does this issue affect laptops, and if so, should any refurbed 13/14th gen laptops be avoided?

GN said in one of their videos that they have loads of emails from laptop owners with the same symptoms as the desktop CPUs, so they're very sceptical that they're not affected, but I don't know how much they have done to check if those symptoms could be due to other issues.

 

[krooton]

GN said in one of their videos that they have loads of emails from laptop owners with the same symptoms as the desktop CPUs, so they're very sceptical that they're not affected, but I don't know how much they have done to check if those symptoms could be due to other issues.

That's a shame, I really wanted to pick up a 2.8k OLED laptop for music production, but Ryzen ones are rare and expensive compared to the Intel offerings.

 

[Tetras]

That's a shame, I really wanted to pick up a 2.8k OLED laptop for music production, but Ryzen ones are rare and expensive compared to the Intel offerings.

It could be one of the reasons the Intel laptops are cheaper

 

[humbug]

It could be one of the reasons the Intel laptops are cheaper

I think Intel are heavily subsidising that market segment to maintain marketshare, Its Intel's MO, its why they are not profitable.

I don't actually have a problem with this, yes it causes AMD problems by slowing their marketshare gains but it also drains Intel of their funds, all AMD have to do is just keep doing what they are doing, unlike Intel AMD are profitable, depending on how stubborn Intel is in this eventually their debts catch up with them and then AMD are the least of their worries.

 

[Rroff]

GN said in one of their videos that they have loads of emails from laptop owners with the same symptoms as the desktop CPUs, so they're very sceptical that they're not affected, but I don't know how much they have done to check if those symptoms could be due to other issues.

Forgot about that - but they've had problems verifying it as the laptops they've been sent, bought off people or had access to were too far gone to be able to identify why they failed other than being a CPU failure - which itself isn't really consistent with the voltage issue as that rarely completely kills a CPU.

 

[arknor]

unlike Intel AMD are profitable

Intel make a profit on CPu's
It's a profitable part of their business, they just are spending more than they generate in revenue and you know where they are spending that money.

I'm sure you very aware of this but keep painting a picture of intel running out of money for some reason.

 

[humbug]

Intel make a profit on CPu's
It's a profitable part of their business, they just are spending more than they generate in revenue and you know where they are spending that money.

I'm sure you very aware of this but keep painting a picture of intel running out of money for some reason.

Spending more money than they generate is not profit, its a loss.

 

[jigger]

Intel make a profit on CPu's
It's a profitable part of their business, they just are spending more than they generate in revenue and you know where they are spending that money.

I'm sure you very aware of this but keep painting a picture of intel running out of money for some reason.

I’m not sure Intel are making a profit just now with amount of warranty replacements.

 

[AMDPower]

I’m not sure Intel are making a profit just now with amount of warranty replacements.

is there a concrete figure for return rate on the 14th gen processors?

 

[jigger]

is there a concrete figure for return rate on the 14th gen processors?

Not much officially. Intels shipment figures vs its last 12~ months sales revenue is something of an indicator.

 

[Rroff]

is there a concrete figure for return rate on the 14th gen processors?

No, there are a few people saying they've been knocked back for returns by 6 weeks, etc. but that doesn't necessarily mean much as most places, including Intel, don't hold a massive amount of stock for returns so it is easily exhausted when an issue arises and a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon at the moment returning their CPUs either just in case or wanting to change to AMD out of an abundance of caution. One retailer has said they've seen returns on Intel 13th/14th gen spike last month and don't have replacements.

Contrary to what jigger is saying, according to published data and what I have access through to work, aside from last 1-2 months AMD has a slightly higher return rate on 7000 series CPUs (probably due to the SoC voltage issue earlier on) than Intel 13th or 14th gen over the last couple of years and neither has particularly abnormal return rates.

Unfortunately there isn't any one reliable source for published data due to things like the market they cater for, etc. but you can look at a spread of sources like Puget and Mindfactory, etc. to get a feel for it.

 

[humbug]

No, there are a few people saying they've been knocked back for returns by 6 weeks, etc. but that doesn't necessarily mean much as most places, including Intel, don't hold a massive amount of stock for returns so it is easily exhausted when an issue arises and a lot of people are jumping on the bandwagon at the moment returning their CPUs either just in case or wanting to change to AMD out of an abundance of caution. One retailer has said they've seen returns on Intel 13th/14th gen spike last month and don't have replacements.

Contrary to what jigger is saying, according to published data and what I have access through to work, aside from last 1-2 months AMD has a slightly higher return rate on 7000 series CPUs (probably due to the SoC voltage issue earlier on) than Intel 13th or 14th gen over the last couple of years and neither has particularly abnormal return rates.

Unfortunately there isn't any one reliable source for published data due to things like the market they cater for, etc. but you can look at a spread of sources like Puget and Mindfactory, etc. to get a feel for it.

lol...

 

[eeii]

Mixed stories on that. According to Intel:



Albeit they only mention the Vmin Shift issue and don't rule out any other problems.

1-2, unverified, sources are claiming seeing it affecting at a high level 13900HX laptops but so far there aren't stories of wider failures of laptops which would support that - but possibly some early 13th gen laptops are affected by the oxidisation issue maybe.

I know this is not ideal but I have a Dell laptop with a 13800hx. In the bios I have turned off the e-cores. This has made a big difference to the amount of heat generated by the laptop. I know this makes no sense and you should not need to do it. But we live in interesting times.

 

[Rroff]

I know this is not ideal but I have a Dell laptop with a 13800hx. In the bios I have turned off the e-cores. This has made a big difference to the amount of heat generated by the laptop. I know this makes no sense and you should not need to do it. But we live in interesting times.

If it is operating properly the P cores should be mostly parked under idle and nominal desktop loads reducing power consumption considerably, unfortunately the opposite can be true in above moderate utilisation levels where the cores can't so easily be power managed and additional light utilisation on the P cores, on top of their heavier load, can be moved to the E cores keeping the whole CPU in a higher power state albeit with a supposed increase in responsiveness.

 

[jigger]

Contrary to what jigger is saying, according to published data and what I have access through to work, aside from last 1-2 months AMD has a slightly higher return rate on 7000 series CPUs (probably due to the SoC voltage issue earlier on) than Intel 13th or 14th gen over the last couple of years and neither has particularly abnormal return

You’re contradicting yourself here by saying there is no data then claiming to have the data yourself.

Can you now produce this data and tell us what your role is please.

 

[Rroff]

You’re contradicting yourself here by saying there is no data then claiming to have the data yourself.

Can you now produce this data and tell us what your role is please.

I'm saying there is no concrete data, there is plenty of indicative data if you go looking for it and/or have access to it.

Here for example is Mindfactory's "complaint rates" which are indicative of return rates, for recent months for a bunch of relevant CPUs:

14600K - 0.57%
14700K - 1.01%
14900 series - 1.92-3.61%
14900KS - 7.53%
7800X3D - 0.44%
9700X - 0.62% (probably too early to be accurate)
7700 series - 0.57-1.1%
7900 series - 0.73-0.93%
7950 series - 1.25-2.30%

I've separated the KS as you often get people returning a bunch of these trying to find a "golden" chip so high complaint rates on those parts aren't unusual.

EDIT: I can't reproduce any data from work as I don't have authorisation to do so.

EDIT2: 13th gen parts similarly have 1-2% rates. Their ~3% average on the 14900 is also consistent with what I've heard from friends in IT who manage large numbers of 14900 systems in tasks like using Unreal Engine for rendering stuff for advertising work, etc.