Intel to launch 6 core Coffee Lake-S CPUs & Z370 chipset 5 October 2017

[muon]

Quite consistent forum replies

Also very different things.

I can tell you how they perform. Look at the clock speed and how many cores there are. Apply some scaling.

How much power they will consume (nothing to do with performance)? That is harder to tell as it requires us to know what the voltages are.

 

[voidshatter]

So why the need for another motherboard then? If it offers more performance within the same power and thermal envelope using the same socket then why? Does anyone actually know the answer to this?

Intel are taking a bit of a bashing at the moment and maybe some of it is unnecessary but this just does not make sense, maybe it doesn't matter to some yet in a perfect world you wouldn't design something that requires unnecessary upgrades unless you had an ulterior motive, surely.

I too agree that Intel has been ripping customers off until Ryzen surfaces.

Z370 requirement will delay my upgrade a bit, since I'm still with my Z170 motherboard. Gonna wait until proper USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports and then upgrade

 

[voidshatter]

Also very different things.

I can tell you how they perform. Look at the clock speed and how many cores there are. Apply some scaling.

How much power they will consume (nothing to do with performance)? That is harder to tell as it requires us to know what the voltages are.

That's exactly the purpose of the review I linked. It shows how the chip performs with and without TDP unlock.

 

[muon]

That's exactly the purpose of the review I linked. It shows how the chip performs with and without TDP unlock.

Where are the power consumption numbers? That is what I said I will wait to see.

Actual processing performance? That's easy.

 

[Doobedoo]

I too agree that Intel has been ripping customers off until Ryzen surfaces.

Z370 requirement will delay my upgrade a bit, since I'm still with my Z170 motherboard. Gonna wait until proper USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports and then upgrade

It's a shame they feel the need to do this. I would completely understand it if they had a valid reason but it's stuff like this that reminds me to steer clear of Intel, I'm willing to sacrifice a few digit's here and there if it means I'm not going to get tucked up or left out to dry.

Shame as they make some good kit It's just about time they were humbled a little bit.

 

[voidshatter]

Where are the power consumption numbers?

Without TDP unlock, it's suppose to be close to the previous models, i.e. 15W. With TDP unlock it's supposed to be around 25W. They didn't measure exact power consumption of the whole laptop with battery life, but their performance numbers already show how the chip works with limited TDP.

 

[muon]

Like I said I'll wait for reviewers that measure on die power consumption. I think it won't be as good as 2C/4T chips rated at the same 15W.

 

[voidshatter]

It's a shame they feel the need to do this. I would completely understand it if they had a valid reason but it's stuff like this that reminds me to steer clear of Intel, I'm willing to sacrifice a few digit's here and there if it means I'm not going to get tucked up or left out to dry.

Shame as they make some good kit It's just about time they were humbled a little bit.

I don't mind upgrading motherboards from time to time, as new features like USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 / better memory OC / more M.2 slots would require motherboard refresh anyway, and imo it's worth the money. Though AMD's longer life-cycle of motherboards would surely be a more friendly road map.

AMD CPUs sometimes work better with AMD graphics cards, at least for some early version games/drivers. For nVidia graphics cards, maybe Intel CPUs could be a better choice for gaming.

 

[voidshatter]

Like I said I'll wait for reviewers that measure on die power consumption. I think it won't be as good as 2C/4T chips rated at the same 15W.

Are you suggesting that the new laptop they tested (a Lenovo ultra thin laptop) has a radical upgrade of cooling design to deal with increased power consumption violating the typical 15W TDP?

 

[Doobedoo]

I don't mind upgrading motherboards from time to time, as new features like USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 / better memory OC / more M.2 slots would require motherboard refresh anyway, and imo it's worth the money. Though AMD's longer life-cycle of motherboards would surely be a more friendly road map.

AMD CPUs sometimes work better with AMD graphics cards, at least for some early version games/drivers. For nVidia graphics cards, maybe Intel CPUs could be a better choice for gaming.

Like I said if it offers a valid reason for an upgrade then that's fine but as of yet were yet to see one.

Gaming isn't the be all and end all for me, plus I game at 1440p where the difference is negligible.

 

[voidshatter]

Like I said if it offers a valid reason for an upgrade then that's fine but as of yet were yet to see one.

Gaming isn't the be all and end all for me, plus I game at 1440p where the difference is negligible.

It looks like the early Z370 motherboards are doomed to be castrated versions due to Intel's panic action against Ryzen. Not sure whether it's worth waiting for the Cannonlake motherboards (which may be doomed to hit EOL since Intel forces motherboards to be obsolete about every 2 generations)?

 

[Doobedoo]

It looks like the early Z370 motherboards are doomed to be castrated versions due to Intel's panic action against Ryzen. Not sure whether it's worth waiting for the Cannonlake motherboards (which may be doomed to hit EOL since Intel forces motherboards to be obsolete about every 2 generations)?

Am I missing something as I was under the impression that cannonlake was not for mainstream chips, I thought Icelake was supposed to be after coffeelake? Confused lol.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Design may have been finalised, but I doubt that clock speed and release date were. Skylake-X is operating far beyond the sweet spot in terms of efficiency and I just think that without Ryzen the clock speeds wouldn't have been anywhere near as aggressive out of the box. Also, the launch was definitely brought forward by a few months and the 12 core and above are coming much later due to Intel probably repurposing Xeons which were never intended to be released to the ordinary consumer market.

I'm pretty sure that without Ryzen we wouldn't be seeing Coffee lake before the middle of next year either and Intel wouldn't have felt the need to make an announcement of this significance months before release.

Well, after all the big hype on the AT forums about SkyLake++ (ah sorry, KabyLake+ (no, sorry CoffeeLake)) 6C/12T being the second coming making Ryzen irrelevant, it seems the glorious day is actually not now, but rather real soonTM (that is October at the earliest).
Like the thermals and power requirements of Skylake-X I expect it to be sweepered under the carpet though.

So remember these contradictionary truths:

1. no mainstream user or gamer needs more than 4 cores (the gospel from now until October*)
2. the i7-8700K with its 6C/12T is the best gaming CPU (the gospel from October* onwards)

*October is a placeholder as Intel actually said 'fall'.

Its hilarious - these so called enthusiasts actually believe companies won't look at what the competition does on the market,since that has always been a recipe for success like with Kodak.

You will find in this very discussion, many wrote that the Z270 is dead socket since February when it came out. But anyone wrote so, was vilified and ridiculed as a lunatic Inte-hater heretic by some in here.
But that's what Intel has said since Feb. Nothing new. Also Z370 CPUs ain't going to be compatible with Z390 CPUs later in 2018. (Cannonlake)
So new motherboards will be required in 10 months time, if not less.

Imho anyone who wants Intel platform for the long term, should be looking at the X299.
And the reason SkylakeX doesn't perform better than the Ring topology CPUs (SKylake, Kabylake, KabylakeX, Broadwel-E) is down to ram speeds used on the "benchmarks" by the "review sites".

Is bit less sensitive to it compared to AMD Zen but it is dependant to the ram speed for the Mesh, never the less. If you see benchmarks with Ram speed over 4000mhz (can do 4133) compared to those with 2666 (usually every benchmark out atm), shall see difference.

Similarly to the AMD Zen 2666 vs 3466 ram (around 20% more perf).

Its artificially done - apparently one of the leaks had a Z270 in it.

I remember people saying the only reason Intel changed from socket 1156 to 1155 since the new chipset need a new socket:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p67-transformer-lga-1155-intel-lynnfield,2815-2.html

Yep,there was no real reason for it.

 

[Panos]

Its hilarious - these so called enthusiasts actually believe companies won't look at what the competition does on the market,since that has always been a recipe for success like with Kodak.



Its artificially done - apparently one of the leaks had a Z270 in it.

I remember people saying the only reason Intel changed from socket 1156 to 1155 since the new chipset need a new socket:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p67-transformer-lga-1155-intel-lynnfield,2815-2.html

Yep,there was no real reason for it.

Z370 socket is 1151, and Intel could have made the 8xxx compatible with the Z270.
But as you put it, artificially they want to sell another round of dead end motherboards. Because Cannonlake comes Q2 2018 (by June 18) with Z390 boards and seems isn't compatible with Z370 CPUs.
And the reasons why Intel can pull such crap are two. The AMD failure with Vega, and sheer inability of Nvidia to optimise their drivers for Zen and SkylakeX to work with the new topology, which is actually more or less the same for both.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Z370 socket is 1151, and Intel could have made the 8xxx compatible with the Z270.
But as you put it, artificially they want to sell another round of dead end motherboards. Because Cannonlake comes Q2 2018 (by June 18) with Z390 boards and seems isn't compatible with Z370 CPUs.
And the reasons why Intel can pull such crap are two. The AMD failure with Vega, and sheer inability of Nvidia to optimise their drivers for Zen and SkylakeX to work with the new topology, which is actually more or less the same for both.

Its quite funny,apparently some enthusiasts think under one year for desktop Kaby Lake is normal and planned by Intel on that said plaice.

Nvidia will eventually have to improve drivers for Ryzen,since Intel is not their mate - remember the whole reason for the Intel payments and Nvidia being screwed out of the chipset business. Putting pressure on Intel is good for Nvidia since Intel is doing stuff like this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11741/hot-chips-intel-knights-mill-live-blog-445pm-pt-1145pm-utc

However,despite Vega not being a GTX1080TI competitor,its still fast enough for the better sites to have as another data point,to confirm CPU performance.

 

[DragonQ]

A Chinese site has reviewed the Kaby Lake Refresh 8th gen Core i5. It looks like the i5 8250U, when compared against its predecessor i5 7200U, has an improvement of about 20% (the 3rd last column). It appears that the 8250U has some problem to maintain the speed at its TurboBoost frequency, hence resulting in relatively disappointing single-threaded benchmarks.

The 2nd last column is the relative performance towards 7300HQ, and the last column is the same with TDP unlocked. These look pretty impressive.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where Intel's "15% better performance than 7th gen" quote comes from.

 

[DragonQ]

Are you suggesting that the new laptop they tested (a Lenovo ultra thin laptop) has a radical upgrade of cooling design to deal with increased power consumption violating the typical 15W TDP?

TDP =/= power consumption.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Its quite funny,apparently some enthusiasts think under one year for desktop Kaby Lake is normal and planned by Intel on that said plaice.

lol, knowing the schedule for this year (namely due to the fact it's been very busy for vendors) since Q1, I can promise you that this has always been the plan.

 

[HaroldSaxon]

I think you mean they are cheaper, and just not as expensive as Intel. If you are a twitch gamer, like you seem to be, and every last FPS counts, then the extra few FPS the Intel gives you especially if you are competitive, then I am sure the platform costs are worth the difference, but when you consider that could be as much as two fold the cost for, a couple of percent, then you are the exception, and not the rule.

That's what I said - as good as they are for budget systems. You'll always get less performance increases at higher price points - but in the games I play (particularly FFXIV) there's a fairly big bias towards Intel (although I can't find updated PUBG benchmarks since the multicore patch).

For people on a budget, its very hard to beat an R5 right now (although the CoffeeLake i3's could be worth a shout!). The way I look at it is if I can even get half the mileage of what my current system had, i'll be very happy considering its something I use every day.

 

[pandem0nium]

AMD have released their share of one - generation, short lived socket / chipsets in the past as well. FM1, AM1.