Intel to launch 6 core Coffee Lake-S CPUs & Z370 chipset 5 October 2017

[Jono8]

Overclocked the 8700K likely beats a Ryzen R7 overclocked. But Intel would really have to have messed things up if they are behind for something coming nearly 3 quarters after Ryzen.

The problem Intel then have is what will Zen 2 do in 2018 H2. Supposedly 10-15% performance gain again (clocks+IPC). Might even overclock well on 7nm.

With Zen 2, if AMD can release an 8 core 16 thread cpu that boosts to 4.5ghz on all cores and has an ipc increase to take it up to kaby/coffeelake ipc for~£400 standards then i'm in.

Hopefully by then they may have sorted out their pro audio/daw shortcomings as well ( if they haven't already)

 

[muon]

If AMD can release an 8 core 16 thread cpu that boosts to 4.5ghz on all cores and has an ipc increase to take it up to jaby/coffeelake standards then i'm in.

That is still a while away. If you need a system now, pick Coffee Lake or Ryzen. Coffee Lake will have the absolute performance advantage (8700K) at decent performance per $ (rumoured $380). One has a cheaper upgrade path in 2018/2019 though (B350/X370 vs Z370).

 

[voidshatter]

Soon to be 1080ti/ or whatever volta card is available when i come to upgrade @ 2560x1080 yeah.
BF1, warframe, destiny 2, wow, overwatch. Most common ones tbh I have noticed in older stuff and mmo's ryzen struggles compared to my old locked 4770.

I thought you mostly play multi-threaded games and not single-threaded games I mentioned from the beginning that my i7-980X was beat hard by i7-2600K in so many games, but the Ryzen users just wouldn't listen. Anyway, I guess the 8700K will sit on the historical prices of the 2600K, 6700K etc, if there's no shortage of supply.

 

[Journey]

A faster card would make sense but the cold boot bug is annoying the **** out of me. That said there are some games where a faster card would make zero sense because it bottlenecks the GPU I have now.
My daughter also wants a computer so I'm thinking of giving her this 1700 and putting it in the tomahawk board and keeping this crosshair and see what zen2 brings.
Choices.

lol, too many choices, it's nice really.

I'd say do a clean break if you change, you won't loose much on the 1700, and CH board, and you can re-use the RAM. Does your daughter need 8 cores? You can get R5.1600/B350/16GB 3000MHz for about £350 otherwise...

 

[smilingcrow]

Hopefully by then they may have sorted out their pro audio/daw shortcomings as well ( if they haven't already)

Not heard that it has been sorted and it's possibly a latency issue caused by the modular nature of the Zeppelin die which contains dual CCXs (modules).
If that's the case I don't see a fix.

 

[smilingcrow]

Just some incremental enhancements to WiFi and USB. Really not worthy of a motherboard replacement and could be achieved through expansion cards if you really wanted the same on an older board.

Info here:
http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/108727-intel-coffee-lake-platform-presentation-slides-leaked/

Intel were due a new socket but the fact that this chipset will only seemingly support Coffee Lake and no future series is the real issue for me.

 

[gavinh87]

lol, too many choices, it's nice really.

I'd say do a clean break if you change, you won't loose much on the 1700, and CH board, and you can re-use the RAM. Does your daughter need 8 cores? You can get R5.1600/B350/16GB 3000MHz for about £350 otherwise...

I plan to re use the ram, its 4266 and ryzen wont get to that speed in this iteration of CPU's.
I already have a spare tomahawk board which I swapped to the crosshair in the hopes of fixing the issues, and it did but somehow some that have been there since day 1 still remain.
I have 16gb spare corsair led ram, again which I swapped out in the hopes of fixing certain issues.
For the price I'd get for the 1700 I'd be better keeping it instead of getting a 1600.

As said, I think I wanna keep the crosshair and see what zen2 brings.

 

[gavinh87]

I thought you mostly play multi-threaded games and not single-threaded games I mentioned from the beginning that my i7-980X was beat hard by i7-2600K in so many games, but the Ryzen users just wouldn't listen. Anyway, I guess the 8700K will sit on the historical prices of the 2600K, 6700K etc, if there's no shortage of supply.

Tell me where I said this. I said ryzen is fine for games, which it is. BF1, overwatch and modern engines are fine
Issues arise when trying get the max fps you can in crappy engines. I think I'm in the minority here with a ryzen and +144hz

 

[voidshatter]

Tell me where I said this. I said ryzen is fine for games, which it is. BF1, overwatch and modern engines are fine
Issues arise when trying get the max fps you can in crappy engines. I think I'm in the minority here with a ryzen and +144hz

Anyway, let's hope that newer games are not going to use these so-called "crappy engines", so Ryzen can be justified with the multi-thread performance (As a computer scientist, I know it'd be challenging to have perfect scaling of multi-core performance in real-world scenarios.)

 

[triss]

Come to my house and tried both have you?
It doesn't like games that only use 1 or 2 cores, it hiccups. It might be because I'm trying to push 165hz but it doesn't like MMO's.
Oh, it also hates forza horizon, I have to lock at 72 fps or it hiccups.

Ty for that info .. Atm its mostly older mmo's i play ( single thread engines ) but i also do a bit on BF1 and BF4. Ryzen ST performance was a lot of the reason i have waited to see how skylake and coffeelake do . Looks like 8700k for me aswell

 

[Perfect_Chaos]

It would be typical of Intel if Icelake is needing a new socket, that's quite pathetic tbh they should at least give 1 upgrade choice to board owners.

 

[eddyr]

I fail to see why (mostly the AMD stalwarts) want to have a motherboard that lasts multiple CPU upgrades, a really ridiculous thing to do IMHO.

I've always upgraded motherboards with new CPU's to take advantage of new technology, new USB standards, new SATA and more, sometimes just new hardware that a BIOS flash cant update ... if anything my most recent high end CPU's have outlived the motherboards it lived on and have had to replace the boards for more performance.

I've always managed to pass on my old gear as bundles on Ebay or elsewhere, does anyone really want to put a new 5 year down the line, AMD or even Intel CPU into an ancient socket that inevitably means old tech motherboard and tech? Really?

C'mon guys, think about it.

Easy, just look at your part history. I had a great z77 board. No need for an board upgrade feature wise. I don't use any of the new features on my z170 (yes I appreciate there are some user inaccessible features introduced and incidentally I don't particularly appreciate them - they don't transform or change my PC use whatsoever).

If I could have purchased a 7700K or even an 8700K and dropped it in that would have been great. Plenty of people have been looking at the 2700K and 3770K as second hand upgrades to their sandy/ivy 4c4t over the last few years.

Hypothetically had AMD been on point in the bulldozer years and released competitive cpu's we might have seen Intel 4c8t chips drop to 4c prices (neat little upgrade say in 2013/2014) or maybe even a 6c chip entering mainstream lets say sometime in 2015). Of course it requires that the Z77 have been built with the aim of being suitable for a hexcore like the 8700K which it would have been had it not been planned to be immediately superseded.

 

[smilingcrow]

It would be typical of Intel if Icelake is needing a new socket, that's quite pathetic tbh they should at least give 1 upgrade choice to board owners.

It wouldn't be typical at all as usually a socket supports two consecutive chipsets.
In this case if true either they are milking it or due to Ryzen they have hacked together a 3 series for Coffee Lake rather than wait for the 4 series which won't be ready in time.

 

[smilingcrow]

You can buy Z series boards from £100 or even slightly less so the cost of selling your old board and buying a new one can be less than £50.
Considering how much the CPUs cost and the cost of upgrading GPUs and high end RAM for Ryzen etc that £50 is a drop in the ocean.
£50 is much less than the rise in SSD and RAM pricing for example.
Big deal.

 

[eddyr]

Its not just about the cost at upgrade. Total cost at the outset count heavily for some, convenience and practicality count too. Although I'd happily wager a £150 board from 2012 is higher quality than a modern £100 board.
Fact is 4c4t did great in a gaming machine in 2012. Recently you would be looking for higher clocked, higher thread count or even higher core cpu's as the games are plentiful that would take advantage of it. With that in mind why the heck not if you could have or can in the future.

If Intel release an 8c chip to mainstream tail end of 2018/early 2019. Would you rather it be able to drop into z370 or do you want it to necessitate a switch to Z470.

 

[AllBodies]

I don't think it will. Sandy Bridge was the first chip of a major architecture change. This chip isn't.

Also 2500K successor is the 8600K.

2500K also lasted so long because pretty much until now all chips have been quad core (4C/4T) and so games were built with that in mind. 3570K, 4670K, 6600K, 7600K.

I believe we are entering a period (like GPUs did after being stuck on 12/16 shaders) core counts will start increasing rapidly.

On the other hand, games won't likely go beyond 6-8 cores any time soon, until the consoles get more powerful CPUs.

The vast majority of games are multiplatform, and now the current generation and half-step consoles are severely limited in CPU power. Games will get prettier but they've got basically nowhere to go with simulation complexity now.

If the 'proper' next-gen consoles come in the next couple of years and have 6 Zen2 or Zen3 cores (i.e. 1 CCX on 7nm) then I'd expect PC games to push towards 10-12 cores over that generation.

So even though I bought Ryzen myself, I'd predict the 8700k will hold up with the best CPUs for gaming till 2021-2022. Next-gen console launch depending.


EDIT: Having said that though, it seems very likely AMD will manage to get to 4.5 GHz+ on 6+ cores themselves with the GloFo/IBM 7nmLP process. So AM4 is likely the better long-term buy for future upgrades.

If AMD can manage a 4.8 GHz 6-core, even with just Zen1's IPC, and also get 3200+ MHz low-latency RAM super-stable on most boards then that would come out cheaper than the 8700k and possible faster too as Zen's IPC really kicks up a notch with 3200+ low-latency RAM.

 

[smilingcrow]

If Intel release an 8c chip to mainstream tail end of 2018/early 2019. Would you rather it be able to drop into z370 or do you want it to necessitate a switch to Z470.

It's not about me though is it and that's what the entitled fail to see.
Upgrading is for the less than 10% so they are not significant and when they grasp that maybe they'll stop whining.
Intel usually gives you two years per socket so deal with it or .....
In this case it's being signposted that Z370 might be a short term interim chipset that only supports CL.
Given the choice of Z370 in a few months with support only for CL or nothing until 2018 with Z470 which support 10nm only then the former is better than the latter surely? No one is being forced to buy it.
It's only the uninformed or entitled that whine. Buy it or don't, makes zero difference to me.

 

[Journey]

It wouldn't be typical at all as usually a socket supports two consecutive chipsets.
In this case if true either they are milking it or due to Ryzen they have hacked together a 3 series for Coffee Lake rather than wait for the 4 series which won't be ready in time.

That's not really fair to say, since it was only the start of the modern Intel Core generation (Lynnfield onwards), where Intel started changing sockets/chipsets all of the time. If you look back at socket 775, had you invested in a P965 chipset board, say an Asus P5B, then that could accept, a P4/Celeron/Pentium D/Core2 Duo/Core2 Quad, and there was support for it all the way along, allowing the top end Q9650 to be used (launched Oct '08) or something as old for example the Pentium 4 531, launched in 2004! It wasn't until the end of 2009, with Lynnfield generation, and socket 1156 things started to change as Intel had zero competition.

You could have owned a motherboard for the best part of four years, but had support for CPU's spanning over 6 years. So just because you are now used to it, does not mean it is typical, since the lack of competition has allowed Intel to push the TCO for a single generation up higher than it had ever been previously.

It's very interesting to see the number of people who have problems with say a Z77/Z68 board, who own a 2500K/3770K etc. and then are forced to upgrade because you can't buy a compatible board for it any more. Had it been a top end Pentium D Extreme chip (Q4 '04) that Intel had your wallet for, you could have still bought a P45 (Q3 '08) based board, and not have to worry about compatibility. Even people who have 4790K's can't buy boards any more, and that's only from June '14. Socket 115x has been a disaster if you compare it to 775, four pin configurations in 5 years vs, one pin configuration in 5 years.

 

[DarkHorizon472]

Intels planned obsolescence is the same as Apples. Due to little competition until now premium prices, frequent changes to standards and only minor incremental improvements. AMD have now produced a good value , competitive product range which has caused Intel problems.

All good for the end user.

 

[Panos]

Intels planned obsolescence is the same as Apples. Due to little competition until now premium prices, frequent changes to standards and only minor incremental improvements. AMD have now produced a good value , competitive product range which has caused Intel problems.

All good for the end user.

Things could have been much better indeed, had Nvidia pulled the finger off and fix their drivers performance with Ryzen -_-