International Men's Day!

[GGizmo]

more women attempt suicide than men.

The differences in suicide rate have a lot less to do with actual mental health issue incident rates but methods.


How many people have committed suicide due to homophobic or transphobic bigits?

Where have you got the stats to show more women attempt suicide than men?

Because all the stats show men lead in suicides by miles.

Latest suicide data

We share the latest suicide data for nations across the UK and Ireland in our Suicide Statistics factsheets.

www.samaritans.org

England

The male suicide rate was 15.8 per 100,000**, compared to a female suicide rate of 5.5 per 100,000**.

Wales

The male suicide rate was 19.7 per 100,000** compared to the female suicide rate of 5.9 per 100,000**.

Scotland

Males remain almost 3 times as likely to die by suicide than females.

Northern Ireland

The male suicide rate was 19.6 per 100,000** compared to the female suicide rate of 7.1 per 100,000**.

Republic of Ireland

The male suicide rate was 14.2 per 100,000*, compared to the female suicide rate of 5.2 per 100,000*.

Suicide rate in England & Wales by gender 2000-2022 | Statista

The annual suicide rate in England and Wales is around three times higher among men compared to women.

www.statista.com

 

[Junglist]

That's just a typical guy response though... A lot of the time, people don't want answers, they just want someone to listen.... Guys, unfortunately, tend to let their minds wander on how to FIX the problem of the person unloading on them rather than just listen and be empathetic and so tend to miss half of the conversation.

Next time someone is obviously venting, stop trying to find a solution for their problem unless they directly ask for it. Just listen actively.

I know people just want someone to talk to. I’ve been through 8 months of continuous therapy and I understand the power of someone just listening

It’s just not a strength of mine and I think it’s important to know yourself and aspects of yourself that aren’t helpful to others. Not everyone is cut out to be a listener and that’s ok.

 

[D.P.]

In the UK marginally more women than men attempt suicide (8% vs 5% in England, more in Scotland) but significantly more men than women are "successful" (75% vs 25% of attempts). The figures show men are disproportionately affected by it even when taking into account the higher percentage of women attempting it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://media.samaritans.org/documents/ResearchBriefingGenderSuicide_2021_v7.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiUgKWb2NWCAxUwh_0HHXqbAYkQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0C0RxDk3k7SY1noP8dXyVy

No one denied that more men die by suicide, but as explained, that rate is not particularly meaningful because its affected by factors that nothing to do with mental health and is not indicative of any gender specific factors.

In the US and Switzerland suicide by guns is relatively high and massively skewed towards men for example. So a key policy to reduce suicide rates in men would be to ban guns.

The real problem is mental health in general, the chronic lack of funding, and government policies over things like benefits for unemployed that either cause mental health issues or prevent remediation. These factors apply equally to men and women

 

[dlockers]

Remind me what the comparison seeks to achieve?

 

[Hades]

No one denied that more men die by suicide, but as explained, that rate is not particularly meaningful because its affected by factors that nothing to do with mental health and is not indicative of any gender specific factors.

Whatever the cause, more men die by suicide. This needs to be addressed. But often when it is raised people try to deflect by saying more women attempt it, or that people raising it are incels, etc, etc. Good examples of that are already in this thread.

Mens issues are brushed off and excuses made. That must stop and mens issues must be taken as seriously as women's issues.

 

[dlockers]

Whatever the cause, more men die by suicide. This needs to be addressed. But often when it is raised people try to deflect by saying more women attempt it, or that people raising it are incels, etc, etc. Good examples of that are already in this thread.

Mens issues are brushed off and excuses made. That must stop and mens issues must be taken as seriously as women's issues.

Is success when men die less than women?

 

[Hades]

Remind me what the comparison seeks to achieve?

Unless the causes are understood then they can't be addressed. It isn't a competition about who is affected more. But there must be specific issues contributing to one gender dying by suicide more than the other. So the treatment and prevention of those issues is likely to be different between the genders (yes there will be common causes but also differences).

 

[Hades]

Is success when men die less than women?

Why do you think that?

 

[D.P.]

Where have you got the stats to show more women attempt suicide than men?

Because all the stats show men lead in suicides by miles.

Latest suicide data

We share the latest suicide data for nations across the UK and Ireland in our Suicide Statistics factsheets.

www.samaritans.org

England


Wales


Scotland


Northern Ireland


Republic of Ireland

Suicide rate in England & Wales by gender 2000-2022 | Statista

The annual suicide rate in England and Wales is around three times higher among men compared to women.

www.statista.com

you are looking at deaths by suicide, not suicide attempts. Men in the UK tend to jump off buildings and bridges, women overdose or slit their wrist but they don't effectively overdose or are found and are rescued. There are other reasons as well and the differences are well studied


The point is, there is no specific acute suicide risk for men related to differences in mental health or access to care.

 

[dlockers]

Why do you think that?

Well you bring up the comparison. What point are you attempting to make?

 

[D.P.]

Whatever the cause, more men die by suicide. This needs to be addressed. But often when it is raised people try to deflect by saying more women attempt it, or that people raising it are incels, etc, etc. Good examples of that are already in this thread.

Mens issues are brushed off and excuses made. That must stop and mens issues must be taken as seriously as women's issues.

The solution is general investment in mental health.

You are trying to make a point that is simply not backed by data because you are ignoring suicide attempt rates . You are the one deflecting from actual hard data!

Do you know of any examples of mental health issues that are specific to men and are not taken as seriously as women's?

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

dlockers and dp are just trying to derail the thread. Don’t feed the trolls guys.

 

[Hades]

Well you bring up the comparison. What point are you attempting to make?

I've already made it above. There appears to be a problem(s) specific to men causing a higher rate of suicide even when taking into account the slightly higher rate of attempts by women. This is shown by the figures in the report I linked.

Just like any other illness it is important to look at why some people are affected more than others so that effective treatments and preventions can be put in place.

 

[D.P.]

Unless the causes are understood then they can't be addressed. It isn't a competition about who is affected more. But there must be specific issues contributing to one gender dying by suicide more than the other. So the treatment and prevention of those issues is likely to be different between the genders (yes there will be common causes but also differences)

As already explained, the main cause is simply the methods chosen. There is zero evidence the treatment or prevention needs to be different. Unless you think there should be a campaign to get men to try overdosing instead of jumping off bridges?

It is this kind of attitude that is extremely dangerous as you are failing to understand the core problem and instead are inventing some causal factors that don't really exist.

 

[D.P.]

dlockers and dp are just trying to derail the thread. Don’t feed the trolls guys.

I can't speak for Dlockers, but I'm simply using the scientific consensus of gender on suicide and mental health with the recognized solution that more investment has to be made for all mental health matters regardless of gender.

 

[Hades]

As already explained, the main cause is simply the methods chosen. There is zero evidence the treatment or prevention needs to be different. Unless you think there should be a campaign to get men to try overdosing instead of jumping off bridges?

It is this kind of attitude that is extremely dangerous as you are failing to understand the core problem and instead are inventing some causal factors that don't really exist.

It's interesting that you think my concern to understand the cause is an extremely dangerous attitude.

Yes of course the method is a huge factor in the disparity. But have you thought about why men and women choose different methods? Is it because men are more serious about ending things? Is it because they already tried unsuccessfully using a less "successful" method and then escalated to a more deadly approach? Is it because the final urge to end things happens at a time when only those more deadly methods are immediately available to them? E.g. a final trigger happens and they immediately act to end things by jumping off a building or in front of a train.

Not looking further into why men choose the more deadly approach is the dangerous attitude. Wanting to understand more than just the method chosen is not the dangerous attitude.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

@BowdonUK Thank you for making this thread.

Take care of yourself gents both physically and mentally. Make time to look after yourself.

Godspeed gents.

 

[D.P.]

I've already made it above. There appears to be a problem(s) specific to men causing a higher rate of suicide even when taking into account the slightly higher rate of attempts by women. This is shown by the figures in the report I linked.

Just like any other illness it is important to look at why some people are affected more than others so that effective treatments and preventions can be put in place.

And as said, the reason is heavily affected by choice of method. That is not a cause to have gender specific treatments, but it could be used to restrict access to guns, to put fencing and security on bridges for example.
A local bridge near me has some good Samaritans set up in a warmed tent in the middle of the bridge over the festive season. It used to be there would 2-3 suicides, predominantly by men, each year. Now that number is essentially zero .

Programs like that can reduce gender differences in suicide outcomes, if that was your primary focus. The real solution is to treat mental health at the cause, which requires much higher investments

 

[adolf hamster]

Do you know of any examples of mental health issues that are specific to men and are not taken as seriously as women's?

Try the ******** attitude that because other people commit suicide that men shouldnt care that they're the demographic who's winning at it?

 

[Penfold101]

I never used to understand mental health issues or why anyone would need to go to a therapist/councillor to talk about stuff. If I had a problem I would deal with it myself, and if I couldn't be bothered dealing with tit then I'd just accept the consequences of it - I didn't see how talking to someone would help it in any way.

Now I'm grown up a bit more I understand that mental health issues are definitely a thing and everyone needs help in different ways, but I still wouldn't go down the route of asking others for help if I had a problem with something. I understood this after seeing this meme which has stayed with me ever since...