iphone!?

Same form factor as in they are both pda shaped and the only real difference is the thickness, which isn't really much of a factor when it's in your pocket anyway,
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Thinkness isnt a factor? Ever used a PDA? Or had one in your pocket for extended periods of time?
The thicker it is, the harder it is to put in your pocket without walking round looking a fool. Thick is cumbersome. And the previous posted specs show that size wise, theres quite a bit of difference.

personally though I'd take build quality over size, we all know how apples previous products have been prone to scratching.
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Do we? Just the Nanos then.
Forgetting that the new Nanos and every other Apple product is fine.
Also forgetting that the iPhone has a touchscreen. So its going to have more protection than usual on that merit alone.
Plus, scratches arnt an indication of build quality.
Build quality is an indication of how well it can perform its primary function under extended usage and abuse. Doesnt matter how badly you scratch a iPod, as long as it still plays music, then the build quality is fine.
 
BoomAM said:
Thinkness isnt a factor? Ever used a PDA? Or had one in your pocket for extended periods of time?
The thicker it is, the harder it is to put in your pocket without walking round looking a fool. Thick is cumbersome. And the previous posted specs show that size wise, theres quite a bit of difference.
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I have an XDA IIi it fits in my pocket fine without looking stupid with anything I wear, wether it's jeans, a suit, my coat pocket whatever. Very durable as well, it's been dropped by people so many times onto concerete and there isn't even the slightest crack anywhere on the device. If a 2cm thick device looks stupid your wearing some strange clothes.
 
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Phnom_Penh said:
Sorry to point this out, but the iPhone isn't out either. ;).
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Thats exactly why I haven't said anything is better than it or it's crap, rather that I would prefer a ppc like the flame.
 
even though it seems to have a reasonably 'high end' spec because of the touch screen etc, i see it as NO WAY geared towards the people who buy XDAs and the like. This will sell BUCKETLOADS, not only due to marketing, but just being different. Take the SE W950i for example, slow, rubbish keypad, really slow at accessing music, but it sells LOADS, because it is a fancy touchscreen music phone, it doesnt even have a camera!

I think this is just stepping your YAF market up to the touchscreen phone era, people who care about messing with java on websites clearly need a better phone. I see apple using the touchscreen for use and navigation in a simple way, rather than the hundreds of options and tinkering you can do on a TyTn.
 
Energize said:
Since the flame isn't out you can't say something is better than it thats just stupid. Espically considering pda phones can do much more. Same form factor as in they are both pda shaped and the only real difference is the thickness, which isn't really much of a factor when it's in your pocket anyway, personally though I'd take build quality over size, we all know how apples previous products have been prone to scratching. Besides there are lots of pdas phones smaller than the iphone with 3g or hsdpa. The iphone isn't exactly small.
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Well you cant compare the to really, 'the flame' is a pda not a phone, hence is faster but bulkier (2x the volume! 'same form factor'!??) and thickness is of huge importance, 11.6 is a very slim smartphone. In addition the flame most likely will not have as good OS, in addition how can you compare build quality when the iphone isnt even out.;) Part of the attraction of apple is the amazing build quality so apart from the nanos scratching Im not too sure your point holds up.

In addition the N95 wipes the pants off 'the flame';)
 
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BoomAM said:
Do we? Just the Nanos then.
Forgetting that the new Nanos and every other Apple product is fine.
Also forgetting that the iPhone has a touchscreen. So its going to have more protection than usual on that merit alone.
Plus, scratches arnt an indication of build quality.
Build quality is an indication of how well it can perform its primary function under extended usage and abuse. Doesnt matter how badly you scratch a iPod, as long as it still plays music, then the build quality is fine.
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I've had a black 80gb ipod a week and the back already has scratches on it just from being on my desk and uploading data to it. I've left the front protective plastic bit on as that was the bit I was expecting to scratch but I was really surprised how badly and quickly the metal back scratched, I'd hate to see what a typical coat pocket would do to it. I've ordered a 'invisible' plastic shield for it to protect it i the future.

I certainly couldn't have that kind of scratching on a phone with the amount I use it, luckily the ipod will be spending most of it's time in the car.

With regards to other Apple products, my iBook scratched extremenly quickly, and my mac mini also on the top. It is certainly not something that only affected early Nanos - I think it was just noticed more with them with the screen cracking problems and the fact it was black.
 
Energize said:
I have an XDA IIi it fits in my pocket fine without looking stupid with anything I wear, wether it's jeans, a suit, my coat pocket whatever. Very durable as well, it's been dropped by people so many times onto concerete and there isn't even the slightest crack anywhere on the device. If a 2cm thick device looks stupid your wearing some strange clothes.
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So you've never thought 'hmm, this would be even better if it was thinner?'. Your telling porkies if you say no.
And why are you on about the durability of the XDA? I havnt questioned its durability at all?

Wicksta said:
...snip...
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Does it still function correctly? Does it play music still? Can you still update music? Can you still navigate the player.
The answer is yes to them all. Scratches easyily, yes, but scratches dont affect the players main use. Its purely superficial damage.

With regards to other Apple products, my iBook scratched extremenly quickly, and my mac mini also on the top. It is certainly not something that only affected early Nanos - I think it was just noticed more with them with the screen cracking problems and the fact it was black.
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The new Nanos, with the new fronts, hardly scratch from what ive heard. And as for your iBook, i dont know what you do with yours, but my 3year old iBook is still as flawless as i when i bought it.
But again, its superficial damage, the devices will still function.

But again, people are confusing build quality and scratches. They are two entirely different things im afraid.
 
BoomAM said:
So you've never thought 'hmm, this would be even better if it was thinner?'. Your telling porkies if you say no.
And why are you on about the durability of the XDA? I havnt questioned its durability at all?
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No I haven't because it's never been an issue and thinner = less battery life or less features which would mean it would be worse than it currently is, ie no sd card slots. I was saying it was durable because I felt like commending htc on their build quality.
 
Energize said:
No I haven't because it's never been an issue and thinner = less battery life or less features which would mean it would be worse than it currently is, ie no sd card slots. I was saying it was durable because I felt like commending htc on their build quality.
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Thinner doesnt nessessarily mean either of those things im afriad.
Look at those Samsung slide phones. The thinner one has by far the better features than the thick one.
With 8gb memory, you dont really have to worry all that much about storage, and the battery life is still up for debate as its yet to be released, and the spec has yet to be finalised.
Plus, the iPhone has got equal specs for the most part to the XDA. And you cant compare 3g/Edge/whatever support, and the spec list we've seen thus far is for the US version of it.
 
On a device designed for video and audio streaming costing loads more than a pda of course you can compare 3g/hsdpa support, not much good if you get "buffering" coming up on the screen when you try to watch a video or it takes ages downloading music because of slow edge.
 
Energize said:
On a device designed for video and audio streaming costing loads more than a pda of course you can compare 3g/hsdpa support, not much good if you get "buffering" coming up on the screen when you try to watch a video or it takes ages downloading music because of slow edge.
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Do you not understand that they use different protocols over in the US? Only 3g is universal. Stuff like EDGE, HSDPA, ect; are adjusted per region.
So, like i said, you cannot compare.
Add to that the fact that its still 6months away from release, the specs might change.
 
BoomAM said:
Do you not understand that they use different protocols over in the US? Only 3g is universal. Stuff like EDGE, HSDPA, ect; are adjusted per region.
So, like i said, you cannot compare.
Add to that the fact that its still 6months away from release, the specs might change.
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Edge is slower than 3g and hsdpa, it's a physical limit of the connection. Even the slowest type of hsdpa is 0.9Mb/s. Edge is 236.8 kbit/s using 4 timeslots and theoretically upto 473.6 kbit/s using 8 timeslots, current devices don't support that speed though and standard 3g is 384Kbps.
 
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Energize said:
Edge is slower than 3g and hsdpa, it's a physical limit of the connection. Even the slowest type of hsdpa is 0.9Mb/s. Edge is 236.8 kbit/s using 4 timeslots and theoretically upto 473.6 kbit/s using 8 timeslots, current devices don't support that speed though and standard 3g is 384Kbps.
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Oh my dear god. Can you not grasp this?
Its not a case of technical ability, speeds or specs.
Its a case of protocols like 3g, EDGE, GPRS, HSDPA, ect; are not universal across every region in the world. As such, as the iPhone, is initially targetted at the American market, and hence, their common protocols. If its released over here, those protocols will be removed and the common ones for our networks will be put in place. The only common variables protocols are 2g/3g. The rest, such as EDGE, and any other you care to name, are most unique to various regions, like Japan, Korea, US, Europe, ect;
Its the same as what every company do. Example, the K800i is the European version of the K790, which is primarily sold in the US.
 
Energize said:
The us uses hsdpa and 3g.
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Everyone's getting a bit confused here between the phone standards - there's a hierarchy which people don't seem to be recognising. At the top layer there is 2G and 3G - that is based just on data rates not on technology/frequency or anything else. There are 2G and 3G networks all over the world.

There are lots of 2G technologies and frequencies those technologies are deployed in, for example GSM is a 2G technology and it can operate at 850, 900, 1800, 1900MHz (the downlink band). In Europe we use GSM 900 and 1800 as our 2G technology. These are also other 2G technologies that have nothing to do with GSM like IS-95 which uses CDMA rather than TDMA. Japan have their own 2G system called PDP and the Nextel system in the US uses yet another (iDen). All different 2G technologies.

Then there is 3G again with different technologies. In Europe we use WCDMA (FDD and TDD) but there is also the CDMA2000 family and the Chinese have the own thing called TD-SCDMA.

So within each technology there is another layer of detail. With 2G, GSM, we have EDGE (it's still GSM, just a slight physical layer evolution of GSM). With 3G, WCDMA we have HSDPA, HSUPA etc as evolutions. The CDMA2000 technology has 1x, 1xEV-DO and 1xEV-DV.

So what's the iPhone doing? In the US Cingular are a 2G-GSM and 3G-WCDMA network, same technologies as Europe which makes them the perfect partner. However the frequencies in the US are different to Europe so the same device won’t be used. I've no doubt the next iteration of iPhone will use 3G-WCDMA, both in the US and Europe.
 
No 3G, no 3rd party apps, nothing new or original...

I sure hope this thing works as slickly as it looks in the presentation otherwise I don't really see who is going to buy this thing. Normal folk won't want it as it's too complex/too big/too expensive. Nerds such as myself will bemoan the lack of 3G and not being able to install non apple approved software.
 
The us uses hsdpa and 3g. So i'd be willing to bet they won't be added for the uk.
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I'd take that bet! :)

HSDPA/UMTS is only available in around 10 cities in the US at present. Cingular has a bit of coverage and T-Mobile has absolutely zero.

I'm willing to bet that they didn't have the HSDPA/UMTS component ready for the initial launch. In the US, that doesn't matter much as HSDPA/UMTS is available to many customers anyway. By the time the iPhone is released in Europe (9 months+ from now), I'm sure they will have everything sorted out. European operators have spent a lot of money on their 3G networks and I'm sure that they will not sell such an expensive 2.5G device.
 
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