Is Messi finished?
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
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Man of Honour
There are plenty of "full time" football supporters with equally mad views!
So if it is the managers fault, and one presumes the players are clever enough to work out that what the manger is doing is not working, then why don't all these great players on the field, see things not going their way, and just step up and say
"look guys this ain't working, you move here and do this, you go there and do that, and lets all play where we are happy and get on with winning. ****what the manager says he obviously has not got a clue, we know what we are doing lets get on with it."
Why do the players just carry on playing a system that, so obviously to a blind man, is just not working ?
Why can't they just get their heads together and do what they know works ?
We used to do it in our rugby team, if the captain saw things were not working and saw a way around it, we changed tactics in mid game on the field with no input from the manager, we used to win loads doing that, as we could change ad hoc and it took time for the other team to adjust , then we would change again, always keeping them second guessing, and on the back foot.
These players get paid millions, why can't they show a little creativity for that.
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True, this thread was started by one.
If only they were like that at Wembley! I still have no idea why I ended up going to watch pretty much every home international under Hodgson's reign but I did and I was the only one in Wembley that refused to take part in Mexican waves.
Caporegime
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Caporegime
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Because the manager picks the team and formation.
You can't turn around and say this isn't working Di Maria you need to walk off and let dyabala come on.
Players can only play certain positions. Whereas rugby only has like 2 different jobs. Anyone can do it.
You can't expect di Maria who is a winger to play in the middle
Di Maria will turn around and say why don't you walk off.
Just lol. Players play. Managers manage.
Seriously football is not that complicated either, you run about kicking a ball.
Any defender or goalie can score, how many times have we seen goalies go up for a last moment corner, and sometimes have even been known to score the winner.
Any attacker can stop a ball going into the goal.
There is nothing complicated about the different positions, players at this level should easily be able to do different jobs if the situation requires it.
Why as a top level international player would you just carry on knowing full well that manager has got it entirely wrong?
Surely you want to win the game and will do anything and everything you can individually to enable that win?
So you are saying that if you are the captain on pitch and know your mates very well as to what they can and cannot do, and if you move a couple of people about you know the whole team will be more effective, and stand a million more percent chance of scoring, you are saying you would never do it because the manager didn't tell you to, and the manager must know better than you, so you just carry on and lose a match you know damn well you can win if you change their positions??
Any defender or goalie can score, how many times have we seen goalies go up for a last moment corner, and sometimes have even been known to score the winner.
Any attacker can stop a ball going into the goal.
There is nothing complicated about the different positions, players at this level should easily be able to do different jobs if the situation requires it.
Why as a top level international player would you just carry on knowing full well that manager has got it entirely wrong?
Surely you want to win the game and will do anything and everything you can individually to enable that win?
So you are saying that if you are the captain on pitch and know your mates very well as to what they can and cannot do, and if you move a couple of people about you know the whole team will be more effective, and stand a million more percent chance of scoring, you are saying you would never do it because the manager didn't tell you to, and the manager must know better than you, so you just carry on and lose a match you know damn well you can win if you change their positions??
I didn't say a manager made zero difference. Those are your words.
Don
It is what half-time "should" be for though mostly it seems the manager just has a hissy about players not playing hard enough/need to do better and can't seem to see when their strategy just isn't working an won't work no matter how much the players try.
Trippier was doing a certain amount of it, despite not being the captain, with the England game if you watch closely and IMO it was a not insignificant part of the reason we won - a few times he was urging players to come forward/back a little from their position or trying to get the layout changed a bit around penalties, free kicks and throw-ins, etc. from my fairly uninformed perspective he seems to have a good head for it and something they should let him run with a bit as it seemed to be doing positive things.
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DI Maria has played in the middle numerous times, Flamini was a straight up midfielder and yet formed part of a record breaking defence in the CL at the time as a left back. Henry frequently played wide. Bendtner who is as much of a straight up forward/striker as you can get frequently played and was effective as a wide attacker.
Most players can and do play multiple positions for various reasons. A red card, an injury, changing tactics and players do different jobs all the time.
Anyway, there has been a very long history of rumours around the Argentina squad that if a manager isn't doing **** Messi wants the manager is done. Messi chooses players he doesn't love playing with, etc. True or not Argentina has a phenomenal squad and for me Messi rarely plays a disciplined nor his best position and most other players seem to drastically underperform compared to club level with the entire focus of the squad being on Messi.
Honestly Guardiola would be the best thing Argentina could do, a manager who has already had Messi under his wing, brought him through, has a huge amount of respect from Messi and was a mentor as a trainer/manager/ex player when Messi was younger. If there is a manager out there who can come in and tell Messi to play a role and chose the team he wants it would be Guardiola.
It's worth remembering that Messi has been pretty damn poor in most of the games in which Barcelona got knocked out of the CL in the last few seasons. He was particularly poor in the last couple of seasons in big games in the last couple of stages Barcelona got to even while other players were okay.
I do think he's declining. I would maybe expect him to a lot more than Ronaldo. Ronaldo was born with good genetics and absolutely kills it training. THere was a thing with Marcelo saying never go for a meal at his place, no soda, just salad and chicken cooked healthily and almost as soon as dinner was finished he was asking if Marcelo wanted to go for a run or go swim laps. The guy trains near constantly to be in the shape he's in and still killing it at what, 33.
Messi took growth hormone in his teens to get taller as he had a problem. Ignore whether if every player did that they could be bigger and stronger for a minute, the fact is that likely takes a toll on the body. He was essentially not supposed to reach the height and strength he did. So he's probably put a lot of stress into his body doing that and maybe you wouldn't expect him to be a guy who makes it at the top of his game well into his thirties as a result of that.
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Technically anyone could play any position. However they wouldn't do anywhere near as well as someone who plays it day in and day out , there are exceptions like milner.
For example defenders play in a line to play offside trap.
If you stick Di Maria in defence he would constantly be out of position as he's just not used to playing. Also he would be terrible at tackling, diving in with no regard as he can do that when hes further up the field but you need control at the back.
Sure some players do play out of position but do they do as well as their regular position.
Bendtner is crap so I have never seen him do well up front so him doing not much out wide probably is on par with him playing up top.
Id like to see Messi playing in defence just lol.
Technically Schumacher could also change a tyre however his best position was in the driver's seat. You aren't going to have the mechanics team up and say oh Schumacher your having an off day maybe we let the tyre guy drive the car and you change tyres for the Monaco grand Prix.
Technically yes that is possible. But only an idiot would think it's a good idea.
Mag
mate changing a tyre vs diving is more like a on field player vs the groundsman
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Soldato
Finished 
About 40 goals last season and he's finished haha
About 40 goals last season and he's finished haha
Soldato
Finished on the international stage? Probably.
Certainly not on the domestic stage.
As noted by others and there for anybody to see he’s hardly set the international stage alight, at least not consistently. Whether that’s the fault of the squad or him personally is irrelevant. I’d imagine he’ll pull the plug on his international career in the not too distant future, unless of course hubris gets the better of him.
With regards the argument of Messi/Ronaldo. Messi undoubtedly has the ‘better’ natural or raw talent. That doesn’t, at least for me, make him the better player.
Ronaldo so very often inspires those around him when things aren’t going for them. Something I’ve only ever seen Messi doing on occasion. I’ve often felt he’s more a fair weather player.
Certainly not on the domestic stage.
As noted by others and there for anybody to see he’s hardly set the international stage alight, at least not consistently. Whether that’s the fault of the squad or him personally is irrelevant. I’d imagine he’ll pull the plug on his international career in the not too distant future, unless of course hubris gets the better of him.
With regards the argument of Messi/Ronaldo. Messi undoubtedly has the ‘better’ natural or raw talent. That doesn’t, at least for me, make him the better player.
Ronaldo so very often inspires those around him when things aren’t going for them. Something I’ve only ever seen Messi doing on occasion. I’ve often felt he’s more a fair weather player.
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