Is Messi finished?

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Psycho Sonny said:
maradonna?

it's hard to compare against a different era of football. it's arguable he is the best his country has produced. there is no way to prove it either way.
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oh without doubt trying to compare era's is a difficult thing but for me maradonna offered more and on a more consistent level on the international stage. so I think that just edges him ahead of messi. as stated previously messi's attitude oft times appears utterly rank when things aren't going his way, I don't like seeing that in a player of his undoubted abilities.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
has anyone been able to translate the above into plain english?

street footballer? the only people that come to mind is diego costa and suarez. those that will do anything including under hand tactics to get the better of an opponent.
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If you quoted me in full you would see that I explained that statement directly afterwards.
 
Thekwango said:
oh without doubt trying to compare era's is a difficult thing but for me maradonna offered more and on a more consistent level on the international stage. so I think that just edges him ahead of messi. as stated previously messi's attitude oft times appears utterly rank when things aren't going his way, I don't like seeing that in a player of his undoubted abilities.
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i'd argue Alfredo Di Stéfano is better than both of them
 
BaZ87 said:
Really? You watched enough South American & Spanish football in the 1950s to make that argument?
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Not a lot but he reminded me of Zidane when I seen him play.

Really strong on the ball. Liked to do tricks and send his opponents the wrong way. Could score any type of goal.

He scored in 5 European cup finals in a row. As well as a whole host of other honours which will never be broken. He did however have puskas playing along side him. Who is arguably one of the best goalscorers ever. They even named an award after him. Also real madrids training ground is named after Di stefano.

To have that honour for such a club is for few.

My personal favourite though is zidane. Which is why I like Di Stefano so much as he reminds me of Zidane.
 
The goal Messi scored last night is why I think he is the greatest ever. Utterly mind blowing yet casual at the same time. He makes the game look easy and seems to have more time than anyone I have ever seen play the game. Taking that ball on his thigh then his boot mid stride was just magical.

I know that some people say that person X from 30 years ago would have been better with modern training, diet etc but I think we are now at the stage where footballers aren't likely to get much better. Now you have everything available to be the best and its a case of talent and hard work that makes the very best players.

Maradona, Pele etc were all freaks amongst a poor average standard of player compared to today. When you watch highlights of old games with the superstars of yesteryear the defenders are slow and rubbish, massive gaps are left all over the place. It was a completely different game. You might get 7 shades of **** kicked out of you but the general level was much lower.

In sports you get eras where there are a lot of top players and sometimes there is a time when the standard is low. Sampras dominated tennis at a time when there was no competition. Murray would have been an all time great if he wasn't playing at the same time as easily 3 of the best tennis players ever in Federer, Djokovic and Nadal.

Anyway, back on topic. Messi is an utter genius in footballing terms and Ronaldo is a machine. I know which I would always prefer to watch.
 
Messi is their greatest strength and greatest weakness.

Whenever an Argentinian player has the ball you can see that all they are thinking about is where is Messi. They don't seem to want to or are not allowed to play their own game. There are many times during a game where a better pass is on but they will try to get it to Messi, often in a position where he is surrounded. It's very different to say Brazil, where the team around Neymar will try to play their own game.

Not sure what the issue is, maybe they are pressured to play that way, but they need to learn to play their own game without him. It will be much better for Messi as well.
 
B1gbeard said:
Messi is their greatest strength and greatest weakness.

Whenever an Argentinian player has the ball you can see that all they are thinking about is where is Messi. They don't seem to want to or are not allowed to play their own game. There are many times during a game where a better pass is on but they will try to get it to Messi, often in a position where he is surrounded. It's very different to say Brazil, where the team around Neymar will try to play their own game.

Not sure what the issue is, maybe they are pressured to play that way, but they need to learn to play their own game without him. It will be much better for Messi as well.
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they don't have any real playmakers in the team a la de bruyne, fabregas, iniesta, modric, etc.

whereas brazil do.

defenders are there to stop goals.
midfielders are there to create goals.
forwards are there to score goals.

Argentina don't have anyone in midfield who can create. whereas brazil have coutinho, they had oscar in the past. they also have firmino who creates a lot playing as a false 9. stick mata for instance in the argentina squad they would instantly become a lot better. they don't have that type of player.
 
I was listening to the radio on the way home last night and it sounds like Argentinian football has kind of gone to the dogs lately. They won youth world cups and competitions for fun years ago but now they barely register on the youth stage.

Between 95-2007 they won it 5 times out of 7. In the 5 since 2007 they have failed to qualify twice, gone out in the first round twice and got to the quarter finals once. Thats quite a turn around for the quality of players coming through.
 
Watching them this WC and its all a bit of a disaster. There is no cohesion in the side, they have no identity, pace or know a way of creating chances. As bad as Messi was in the first two games, he is the only one that looks remotely bothered about wanting to score.
Higuain yesterday was terrible, touch was poor, couldn't hold it up.
Maschareno looks a broken man and should have retired by now! He couldn't pass the ball but at least shows some effort.
Di Maria so so poor.
Surely they can get Dybala in there somewhere, I know he plays similar position to Messi but if they play like that again they're in for a drubbing with France's pace.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
they don't have any real playmakers in the team a la de bruyne, fabregas, iniesta, modric, etc.

whereas brazil do.

defenders are there to stop goals.
midfielders are there to create goals.
forwards are there to score goals.

Argentina don't have anyone in midfield who can create. whereas brazil have coutinho, they had oscar in the past. they also have firmino who creates a lot playing as a false 9. stick mata for instance in the argentina squad they would instantly become a lot better. they don't have that type of player.
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Di Maria should be pretty creative (or at least he has been). Banega seems to be able to play a nice ball as well. Pavon? Aguero and Higuain look lost in this team and they are at least capable of creating something for themselves. They have also played teams with lesser players in. They should be creating more.

Don't focus just on Messi and play your own game, let Messi add to what you are doing, and they get instantly better.
 
B1gbeard said:
Di Maria should be pretty creative (or at least he has been). Banega seems to be able to play a nice ball as well. Pavon? Aguero and Higuain look lost in this team and they are at least capable of creating something for themselves. They have also played teams with lesser players in. They should be creating more.

Don't focus just on Messi and play your own game, let Messi add to what you are doing, and they get instantly better.
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aguero and higuain are goalscorers they don't create they finish. as for lesser teams croatia has arguably one of the best midfields in the world. 1 from barca, 2 from madrid, and 2 from inter etc. nigeria has very strong, physical and really good defensively minded players, mikel, ndidi, moses, etc. you need real quality in midfield to beat them comfortably. iceland well i take it you watched the euros? enough said. they are a good squad, little individual talent but a really good team who plays as a unit.

di maria is a winger he's also completely 1 footed. all you need to do is show him onto his right foot and he fails. he is easy to subdue so long as you can match his pace. so you don't know much about him tbh. he isn't that good when you know how to play against him. take away his goals for PSG as we all know the french league is crap. he scored 25 goals in 5 years playing for 2 of the biggest teams in the world. in 30 appearances in ligue 1 (a crap league) he has made 6 assists. 1 assist every 5 games. he has scored a lot there more than he has before and that is in particular due to him being very greedy, likes to overdo things when a simple pass is on he would rather take another player on as he maybe beat 1 or 2. this works in ligue 1 and that is why he is scoring. psg are leagues ahead of the pack.

so no he isn't good enough to destroy teams like nigeria, croatia or iceland by creating chances. so they are relying on the likes of banega and biglia and let's face it they aren't exactly world class playmakers.

they need a manager who can play to their strengths. they have 4 world class forwards. aguero, higuain, messi and dyabala. but with no real playmakers. it's far from just ,messi and only messi. their team is great lacking creative midfielders therefore they need to use tactics to compensate. something their manager seems incapable of.
 
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