ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

You've back peddled from the grandiose statement of "scenes of celebration", to "a few kids at school" and since being called out on that matter you've back tracked further. Seeing as you continue to peddle an anti Muslim rhetoric based on your poor little school boy experiences then excuse me when anyone else sees that as hilariously pathetic.

Your own personal troll? While the sentiment is endearing I'm afraid to inform you that you hold yourself in far too high regard. Look at it this way instead: your posts often rouse a response of scepticism. All I see when your username pops up on the left is a stream of posts locked in a circular argument with another forum member. Ergo, I've wasted enough time engaging in "discussion" with you. It's something I stated earlier that I wasn't going to do, you wiley old fox, but thanks for the effort nonetheless.
 
Mayh3M said:
He said 'every Asian lad' in his school. If he said a few maybe I'd believe him. But 'every Asian lad' having a 'picture of Bin Laden in their yearbook'? Not even the Daily Mail would come out with such grandiose and ridiculous accusations.

Muslim communities in this country, especially ones of conservative backgrounds, have deep rooted issues and problems they need to address. It's unhelpful for everyone when you spout unmitigated nonsense rather than focusing on the facts and the real issues.
Click to expand...

It isn't necessarily just the Conservative types either. Looking at those British individuals that fled to Syria to fight. Yes they all had some link to being Muslim, but really the evidence doesn't indicate that they were 'triggered' or that being a Muslim was the reason for their actions. In fact, neither of them were devout Muslim, that's a total misconception. The perception that an individual is scouted and radicalised is pretty much unfounded also.

What those young men all had in common instead was a stark disassociation from society. All people are vulnerable to falling foul of that, you don't have to be identifying as Muslim. You can pretty much lump our chav culture in there, our poor and uneducated types and those who have severe drug addiction. Hell, even young white lads who fall victim to feeling emasculated through societal pressures and end up becoming reclusive virgins addicted to pokemon can be classed as socially disassociated.

Anyone who feels let down by society will easily embrace something that empowers them and makes them feel part of something bigger. Unfortunately the lure of ISIL and extremism was enticing for some of these guys. What they all had in common wasn't Conservative ideals, they were all quite usual in background and upbringing. However, they all lacked decent education and/or jobs and they were left to feel outcast from society....

It's the main reason why I sneer at anyone preaching ignorant wide sweeping guff. Those people are as much a cause for the problems we have as the Islamic extremists are. They compound the issues.
 
SexyGreyFox [Deceased];29812688 said:
Say what you like but what he was saying was common knowledge concerning Longton High School.
I live 2 miles from the school and in the other direction I worked 2 miles from the school. I worked with many people who had kids at the school and also friends with kids at the school.
My daughters also had friends at that school and it was common knowledge that all the Muslim lads were carrying pictures of Bin Laden around.
We also had daily stories of racist encounters and many films were spread around of fighting at the school.
Now looking at it from an adult perspective, lads will be lads and from my point of view many of these Muslim lads probably didn't realise the significance of what they were doing. I worked with 3 Muslim brothers who said they would be horrified if their sons were carrying such stuff around and their kids went to that school.
However, from Raohns point of view as a schoolboy he saw it completely different. I believe him 100% when he said the Muslim lads were carrying pictures and he was more than likely scared by it.

But another however, here in Stoke we don't really have a racist problem. It is very rare we hear of racist attacks and everybody uses Asian taxis to get around and Asian takeaways to eat from. It's true that kids were being kids but the adults have it under control and those who are racist don't use their fists and mainly keep it to their friends.
Click to expand...


:confused: I'm not disputing any of the above. You're further ratifying my point. A particular high school in one particular location had a particular problem. It's looking more and more like an isolated and local problem over anything. It sounds like a gang of kids being dicks at the time (we all jumped on the provocative band Wagon of something or other when we were jumped up youths).

So the actions of these kids at Longton high school, should we let that shape our worldly view of all the millions of Muslims in the world today? Because that's what is happening here. "There were scenes of celebration!".... Well ****! News flash, kids can be dicks!
 
RDM said:
I thought they had been cases of engineers and doctors going out to Syria too? Not really sure you could call that lacking decent education.
Click to expand...

I'm speaking from my own experience of the case studies we've worked on. My statement really should have been worded differently to say "they all lacked decent qualifications and/or jobs and/or were disassociated from the rest of our society"... The last part being most prominent because I'm not denying some of them have something about them but for us to vilify and target large groups of society and lump them all together based on our own prejudices we are simply adding to that growing number of disassociated individuals.
 
Xordium said:
:D

I guess if you had a few bad eggs who were ring leaders it wouldn't take too much for the other lads to follow the crowd. Just trying to be diplomatic that's all. Who knows?!? We all have to base our judgements on the strength of evidence, or lack of it, and our personal opinions of the veracity of their arguments.
Click to expand...

Pretty much my view on things. Kids in gangs, aspiring to impress the bigger kids. If we identify this early then the route cause of a person's demise is easily captured and prevented from manifesting, which we usually do. Most of the "naughty boys" I knew at school have grown up to be normal functioning adults.

However, to carry a generalised view of all people into my adult life, based solely on the actions of school children, would be a fail on my part.
 
I think the only true observation that either of you can make is that no news outlet is 100% credible, regardless of their location or agenda.

For one, they are often constrained on what they are allowed to report, for security concern. Secondly, to believe that RT is more credible than any other news outlet is naive. You have no way of knowing unless A. You were there or B. You are the source for their report.

Arguing "facts" therefore is futile.
 
RaohNS said:
Of course not. But some are more credible than others. We see it all the time on these forums.

We can make logical judgements based on facts we see or are presented. The above example of the Russian jet for instance. Turkey bankrolling ISIS (that was minimal on western media) but prominent elsewhere. When one outlet provides more information as RT did with the jet incident they become more credible because of the nature of what they are reporting and the information reported.

Same as with the migrants rampages. BBC was silent on it, then lied, then was laconic and eventually when so many instances occurred they had to go with something. Remember the BBC didn't report the Cologne sex assaults until what a few days or a week since they happened?

They were all over certain news reports (RT included) well before. BBC also deliberately chose not to air certain attacks.

All news has an agenda of course it does, but people who hold the BBC now, today and going forward as a reliable and impartial media platform are beyond naïve
Click to expand...

I think it's easy to cherry pick examples that confirm your own bias, we could do exactly the same with BBC if we wanted. Of course RT are going to lead with stories that discredit Western aligned news outlets and lean favourably in Russian interests. It will get like minded people such as yourself to keep watching them, as are those who are BBC leaning sticking to the BBC. In the end it's all about viewing stats. The news doesn't care about actual truth.
 
The BBC is very frustrating. Personally I tend towards Al jazeera, but that's mainly because they cover major world events all over, not just the fact that Jeremy Corbyn picked his nose once.
 
Gets nothing done in reality? In what context are we talking here? I mean, considering you're in real terms wealthier than the majority of people on the planet, I think it has got something done in reality. Or do you think your standard of living would have been better had you been born in Syria?
 
StriderX said:
We are wealthy due to protectionism, and history... being a democracy doesn't mean much in that regard.

We need to federalize to an actual federal state (I want a hard two-tier citizenship, harsh penalties for disobedience and required military service on some level), i see no other future frankly.
Click to expand...

I think you're a fantasist. Have you ever visited the middle east? Iraq? Syria?

As for military service... No thanks, don't want them!!
 
StriderX said:
Then what do you propose for the millions of people in the UK and indeed Europe who will never get a job, continue to disenfranchise themselves into hatred of their state and cause a ruckus?
Click to expand...

Why will they never get a job? What has that got to do with becoming a federation? Would that suddenly create a bunch of jobs, or enable people to go and get those existing jobs?
 
sven256 said:
Eh?


They are just pictures i have taken from the Restraunts facebook accounts, from a couple of days ago

They go back years, i can pull up many many more if you want from years ago.

https://www.facebook.com/mashraqaRest/

https://www.facebook.com/rondo2014/

There are 100s more places as well if you want me to post those, they are not regime propaganda they are just normal photos the say as any company would post on their facebook page.
Click to expand...

Shock! As major cosmopolitan has a cosmopolitan lifestyle. Like any major city, you will get moderates and extremes of all ilk. I can find photos of terrible stuff going on in Damascus. So what?
 
StriderX said:
People are wandering around headless and without any acknowledgment of a future, service to a federation is a viable solution.
Click to expand...

You seem to have misread my questions...

RoboCod said:
Why will they never get a job? What has that got to do with becoming a federation? Would that suddenly create a bunch of jobs, or enable people to go and get those existing jobs?
Click to expand...
 
sven256 said:
But try and find nice thing happening in terrorist held territories.

Good luck.

The women will be lock away. Walking 3 steps behind a male, when allowed out and wearing full burka.
Click to expand...

Im not denying the terrorist held places aren't bad. However, it's not a case of there are places held by the government and then everywhere else is terrorist held. Some villages have been cleared out and held by ISIL, yet a few miles down the road there will be another village, under no such 'ownership' with people just going about their daily lives normally.

You're also incorrect on the women locked up or walking behind a man. In raqqah itself, women walk freely on their own. I'll give you the burka assumption, that part is true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom