ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

RoboCod said:
If it was shot in Turkish air space, it could still come down in Syria, you surely realise that? :p
Click to expand...

Not that deep in Syria. The is virtually no way you can inflict fatal damage to a MIG-29 (as it was reported) and have it stay up that long. I'm not saying it's not possible, but the chances are silly.

To put it in perspective it would have taken the MIG three minutes to get from the border to the alleged crash site at maximum speed (which you're probably not doing if seriously damaged).

If MH-17 showed people anything it was that aircraft are nowhere near as durable as in movies.



opethdisciple said:
Basically, its Oil. And what's good for Russia isn't good for the US. Which is why they disagree on Asad.
Click to expand...

Getting a bit tired of pointing this out but just because Syria is in the middle east doesn't mean it had decent oil reserves, it has oil but a pathetic amount and certainly not worth military action over.
 
Last edited:
ubersonic said:
Not that deep in Syria. The is virtually no way you can inflict fatal damage to a MIG-29 (as it was reported) and have it stay up that long. I'm not saying it's not possible, but the chances are silly.

To put it in perspective it would have taken the MIG three minutes to get from the border to the alleged crash site at maximum speed (which you're probably not doing if seriously damaged).

If MH-17 showed people anything it was that aircraft are nowhere near as durable as in movies.
Click to expand...

I disagree - there is a huge range to it. Take Aloha airlines Flight 243 for example - held together long enough to make an emergency landing 15 minutes later with catastrophic damage to the airframe (it wouldn't have been flying for much longer).

A close detonation of your average anti-air missile can easily do enough damage you are forced to ditch the plane minutes later but not immediately fall out of the sky.
 
ak22 said:
Reports of Iraq air force bombing Daesh chief abu al baghdadi convoy but his is fate is unknown.
Click to expand...

Wait a second, when did Iraq get an air force? It was destroyed in the 1991 and 2003 wars lol.

*Googles*

Ahh I see, the USA sold them some F-16's and Iran loaned them some Su-25s, well thank god ISIS didn't appropriate any of them lol.



Rroff said:
I disagree - there is a huge range to it. Take Aloha airlines Flight 243 for example - held together long enough to make an emergency landing 15 minutes later with catastrophic damage to the airframe (it wouldn't have been flying for much longer).
Click to expand...

That was a Boeing 737-297, are you saying that a MIG-29 1/10th the size would do just as well?

Fighter jets do not survive missile strikes as a rule. The have been notable exceptions (like when an F-15 had a wing blown off and used it's immense thrust/speed to make it home, or that Tornado shot down in Desert Storm that controllable long enough for the pilots to eject safely) but MIG-29s are not know for their robustness.
 
Last edited:
ubersonic said:
That was a Boeing 737-297, are you saying that a MIG-29 1/10th the size would do just as well?
Click to expand...

There is a huge range of outcomes from non-direct hits without immediate crashing in the local area any more likely than a range of other possibilities i.e. fragmentation could kill the pilot while otherwise leaving the rest of the plane functional resulting in it coming down in an entirely random manner even potentially flying until it ran out of fuel.

Likewise with any other damage.
 
scorza said:
That's what I was getting at ;)

Just scanning the 'Fail who are claiming Turkey have shot down a Russian jet who incurred into their airspace. The report seems to be based on nothing but social media comments so hopefully it's not true. In what might be considered by some to be an omen, I was driving just now and Nena's 99 Red Balloons came on the radio :eek:
Click to expand...

Perhaps Turkey needs to just STFU.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/turkish-and-greek-jets-engaged-in-dogfight-2015-7
 
ubersonic said:
Wait a second, when did Iraq get an air force? It was destroyed in the 1991 and 2003 wars lol.

*Googles*

Ahh I see, the USA sold them some F-16's and Iran loaned them some Su-25s, well thank god ISIS didn't appropriate any of them lol.





That was a Boeing 737-297, are you saying that a MIG-29 1/10th the size would do just as well?

Fighter jets do not survive missile strikes as a rule. The have been notable exceptions (like when an F-15 had a wing blown off and used it's immense thrust/speed to make it home, or that Tornado shot down in Desert Storm that controllable long enough for the pilots to eject safely) but MIG-29s are not know for their robustness.
Click to expand...

So despite not at all likely to happen, it is in fact likely to happen (as with the examples you have yourself above). If flying at 15k+ feet it takes a considerable amount of time to come down to earth. A damaged aircraft could quite conceivably limp a fair distance back,it isn't necessarily just going to plummet to earth like a stone. Their SOP is to bin it in friendly territory, point homebound and try not to land in bad lands or built up areas.
 
RoboCod said:
So despite not at all likely to happen, it is in fact likely to happen (as with the examples you have yourself above).
Click to expand...

No the examples were things that are unlikely to happen (hence them being exceptions to the rule. It's possible it could have happened, just extremely improbable.
 
ubersonic said:
Fighter jets do not survive missile strikes as a rule. The have been notable exceptions (like when an F-15 had a wing blown off and used it's immense thrust/speed to make it home, or that Tornado shot down in Desert Storm that controllable long enough for the pilots to eject safely) but MIG-29s are not know for their robustness.
Click to expand...

Direct hits not so much - but the chances of a close proximity hit are many times higher than a direct hit and the way many of the common anti-air systems operate. The results of which are far less decisive than a direct hit.
 
I still don't get what he is arguing, seems to be off on a tangent so I'm not following what the point is now. As Rroff said, SAMS don't have to direct hit, proximity hits are enough to class as a hit.

Also the general rule of thumb is aircraft don't fly within 10nm of a border anyway, as it is expected you're going to be shot at if you do. It isn't as if it's a case of waiting till he suddenly meets that imaginary line of the country border and he's free game. If it's clear they're on a heading into opposing airspace then the opposition may very well take defensive measures. Looking at it in terms of putting ones foot over the line is a little simplistic.
 
scorza said:
http://www.channel4.com/news/jamal-al-harith-guantanamo-detainee-flees-to-syria

Ding ding surprise a former British Guantanmo Bay inmate, who David Blunkett assured us was no threat when he was released, has fled to Syria and is fighting for the Islamic State.
Click to expand...

Wikipedia summarizes the findings of the Senate CIA Torture report: it includes anal forcefeeding and rape, outsourcing torture, lying directors, false stories planted to misdirect the media, the freezing death of one detainee, a 20% innocence rate and accidentally torturing their own sources.

I think it would be fairly easy to witness, let alone suffer through, the actions performed by the west in the name of peace and freedom, and come out the other end thinking that they are the bad guys and that Mohammed and his gang is worth fighting for to stop the evil.
 
ThestigGT999 said:
Syria conflict: Shells hit Russian embassy compound


this what happens when you arm al qaeda, I mean rebels (same thing)
Click to expand...

Anyone notice this bit?

In another development on Tuesday, a report by Amnesty International accused Kurdish forces in northern Syria of carrying out a wave of forced displacements and mass house demolitions that amounted to war crimes.
It said the Popular Protection Units (YPG) had razed entire villages after capturing them from IS.
Click to expand...

These are the guys the US just provided 40+ tonnes of ammo in an airdrop a couple days back.

Good to see the west supporting a just fight against an evil regime. Or was it the other way around?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom