ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[scorza]

Just catching up with Question Time from last night, people are saying that intervening in Syria when parliament voted on it could have helped hobble ISIS. Are they seriously forgetting that the purpose of that proposed intervention was to help the 'rebels' that turned out to be ISIS?

How can the public be so staggeringly misinformed on this?

Indeed how can you be so staggeringly misinformed on this? The proposed Syrian airstrikes would suported the Free Syrian Army, a secular group opposed to the Assad regime. Since then they've pretty much been wiped out by the Islamic State and the Syrian forces.

I'm not saying that airstrikes in Syria would have been right, but there's no pretending that not doing anything helped Islamic State become the dominant resistance to the Assad regime in Syria.

 

[deuse]

IS stands for Islamic SCUM.

 

[Amp34]

It is, but if we implemented a minute's silence for every terror attack by Muslims we'd end up like Trappist monks.

Or any event where large numbers of people died. As I mentioned before this is almost certainly a politically motivated decision to rile up the british public just that bit more, allowing Cameron et al to benefit from the incident.

Without actually reading the full comment I'm guessing brand is saying a similar thing.

 

[Amp34]

Iraq no - Libya yes - Gaddafi had it coming a long time.

Well perhaps if you went to the right country it might be a start Foreign jihadis (including British Muslims) fighting against the Serbs/UN peacekeepers is pretty much well known and has been reported on many times. Keep your head in the sand though - it suits you.

Well on your head be the deaths and turmoil in Libya right now then.

So it was a "hotbed" at the time of war then? How about now, which is what your post insinuated. Still no links/evidence to back up any of your assertions?

 

[Amp34]

In case you missed it, Islamic State have been ethnically cleansing parts of Syria and Iraq of non-Sunni Muslims over the past year or so. We've (the West) stood by and let it happen.

You must have missed the bit where we started bombing them, and the bit where the west helped evacuate the Yazidis.

Personally we aren't doing enough IMO, but I don't believe people are willing to suffer the consequences.

 

[Amp34]

Should we not intervene in Libya instead? i mean it also contributes heavily to the Migrant crisis... MP i.e. Moronic people.

No, Libya is Cameron's "success" story...

 

[scorza]

You must have missed the bit where we started bombing them, and the bit where the west helped evacuate the Yazidis.

Personally we aren't doing enough IMO, but I don't believe people are willing to suffer the consequences.

Oh so we actually helped with the ethnic cleansing then.

 

[Amp34]

libya is at civil war, there are more than 2 sides now unlike when there was a coop against gaddafi from Benghazi .


we would be idiots to try and bring stability to that country it ain't happening


They are brainwashed, some have already committed suicide bombings

10 year old suicide bombers is just sick how any religion can tolerate that is just madness
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...bducted-girls-suicide-bombers-experts-n284456

The use of abducted children as soldiers and "weapons" isn't a muslim thing, nor is it new. It's been going on for decades (and probably longer), see the lords resistance army as an example. Child suicide bombers is just an amalgamation of child soldiers and the Islamist obsession with suicide bombers.

I doubt many muslims do tolerate it, it appears extremists do though unfortunately, partly because it seems to get results.

 

[Amp34]

Oh so we actually helped with the ethnic cleansing then.

So no matter what he west do they aren't doing enough?

While I believe we should be doing more (as I've mentioned several times) rescuing thousand of people from being murdered should not constitute helping ethnically cleanse an area, even if by the strictest definition it may fall in to it.

What would you suggest the west do (we may finally agree on something here )?

 

[MookJong]

We hear very little about the "moderates" that William Hague wanted us to back these days. We also hear very little about how Sunni and Shia was at the heart of the ISIS uprising.

The situation has now become very one dimensional in the media and this is dangerous. We seem to hold this flawed belief that if we simply removed an oppressor these societies would suddenly embrace western values and capitalism. It's all been very short sighted...

The situation is incredibly complex there and we must be very careful that we actually understand it. Is it clear to anyone what "helping" currently looks like?

 

[arknor]

We hear very little about the "moderates" that William Hague wanted us to back these days. We also hear very little about how Sunni and Shia was at the heart of the ISIS uprising.

The situation has now become very one dimensional in the media and this is dangerous. We seem to hold this flawed belief that if we simply removed an oppressor these societies would suddenly embrace western values and capitalism. It's all been very short sighted...

The situation is incredibly complex there and we must be very careful that we actually understand it. Is it clear to anyone what "helping" currently looks like?

imo best thing with isis is to try and contain them and hope one day the people have had enough.

don't see any outside non muslim countries bringing stability via an invasion which is what it would take

 

[scorza]

So no matter what he west do they aren't doing enough?

While I believe we should be doing more (as I've mentioned several times) rescuing thousand of people from being murdered should not constitute helping ethnically cleanse an area, even if by the strictest definition it may fall in to it.

What would you suggest the west do (we may finally agree on something here )?

What I think we should do is bring Iraqi/Syrian Christians/Yazidis/Zoroastrians etc to Britain and give them asylum if they want to come here. The rest of them? well I can't help but wonder how many of them supported attacks against British and US troops in Iraq so they kinda made their own bed there and now they have to lie in it. So maybe doing nothing is the best thing in this case, the important thing is to make sure the Islamic State doesn't get too strong.

 

[Johno please?]

Just catching up with Question Time from last night, people are saying that intervening in Syria when parliament voted on it could have helped hobble ISIS. Are they seriously forgetting that the purpose of that proposed intervention was to help the 'rebels' that turned out to be ISIS?

How can the public be so staggeringly misinformed on this?

Whos to say if we had actually intervened and helped the FSA remove Assad that ISIS wouldn't have such an influence on the region like they do now.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Child suicide bombers is just an amalgamation of child soldiers and the Islamist obsession with suicide bombers.

Suicide bombers aren't exclusive to muslims, the Tamil Tigers used it extensively for years assasinated Indian PM Rajiv Gandhi amongst others. They were extremists who happened to be hindus.

 

[RoboCod]

Suicide bombers aren't exclusive to muslims, the Tamil Tigers used it extensively for years assasinated Indian PM Rajiv Gandhi amongst others. They were extremists who happened to be hindus.

I'm quite sure he is aware of that fact.

 

[sniffy]

Are they seriously forgetting that the purpose of that proposed intervention was to help the 'rebels' that turned out to be ISIS

That's not entirely true. There's a lot of groups fighting in Syria. Initially it was government forces against various anti-government forces (e.g. FSA) but the resulting power vacuum opened the doors to jihadists. It is true that a lot of anti-government fighters have switched over to groups like al-nusra and IS. However this is largely down to the wealth and success these groups experience against government forces. IS largely festered in the toxic environment created during the occupation of Iraq and they simply exploited the situation in Syria.

 

[scorza]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/isis-big-ben-flag-shocking-6005825

This is why I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that freedom of speech doesn't work in a multi-cultural society. Surely this can't be allowed?

 

[RoboCod]

A bit of smash TV never hurt (yes it is a daily mail link, and what?)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-destroyed-RAF-drone-s-Hellfire-missile.html

 

[albert]

Strange how nothings done with Palestine being constantly bombarded by Israel. Obviously to us in the West it doesn't matter about all the innocent women and children who have lost their lives due to Israeli bombs.
Another thing. This minutes silence for the 33 Tunisian victim's. Totally agree it and I participated myself. However, look at the illegal Iraq war and the 500,000 innocent people we in the West killed. No minutes silence, or apology, for them.

 

[RoboCod]

Strange how nothings done with Palestine being constantly bombarded by Israel. Obviously to us in the West it doesn't matter about all the innocent women and children who have lost their lives due to Israeli bombs.
Another thing. This minutes silence for the 33 Tunisian victim's. Totally agree it and I participated myself. However, look at the illegal Iraq war and the 500,000 innocent people we in the West killed. No minutes silence, or apology, for them.

I agree to an extent, however, those innocents lost their lives as a result of collateral damage in a war zone. They were not out right murdered. More so, that figure is not attributed to the west, many if those were killed by the taliban. You should consider facts before boasting an opinion.

Why single out Israel too? Is it part of your agenda? What about hezzbolllah and all the atrocities carried out by the Palestinians? We could go on forever.