ISPs to be ordered to boot illegal downloaders

~>Dg<~ said:
isp companys dont care what you dl.its when they get threats from the owners material you dl that they get cross. thats when you get a warning or if you dl to much monthly.youll still get two warnings before final removal.
Click to expand...

Not to burst your bubble, but I care. I don't like heavy p2p downloaders because it creates traffic patterns which we wouldn't see otherwise and the network isn't designed for. It degrades the user experience for other people as well.

We could upgrade the core further to accomodate heavy p2p downloading or we could just shape the connections of those who do it. One costs millions, the other option costs a couple of hundred quid revenue if the users decide to leave.

You're partially right in that I don't care if the material is illegal, if you download 500GB of movies or linux ISOs a month doesn't matter to me, that you download 500GB matters.

I'm not even so bothered about the legal side right now, if we get legal requests for names from copyright holders we'll give them the details. You break the law, I'm not looking out for you. The admin time bugs me though...

The only potential legal issue is that we could be held responsible for the IP we assign to you but this is unlikely.
 
bigredshark said:
Well seeing as I work for an ISP, we have the equipment and I have the ability and then some, I'd disagree.

We're by no means the biggest ISP about and we're business focused, so the equipment that consumer ISPs have is generally even more advanced than ours.
Click to expand...

I gathered you worked for one :)
Is that really the case? I was always under the impression that some of the ISPs, even major ones, were not particularly specialised in such areas as monitoring and de-crypting content, as this is a fairly NEW requirment from non business focussed ISPs wouldnt you say?
 
bigredshark said:
Not to burst your bubble, but I care. I don't like heavy p2p downloaders because it creates traffic patterns which we wouldn't see otherwise and the network isn't designed for. It degrades the user experience for other people as well.
Click to expand...

Thats called bad design. And is used far too often as an excuse for isps to make even more money, by putting more users on a system that is nowhere near capable of sustaining them. If you offer someone a 10MB connection, then you should have a system capable of handling that, if not charge for data transferred not speed. The whole point of broadband is being able to transfer large amounts of data quickly. There is so much false advertising and over subscribing from isps these days.

bigredshark said:
You should be, most ISPs have the equipment and ability inspite of your encryption. Traffic profiling is as effective as content inspection and nice and easy to do with the right equipment (which most decent sized ISPs have already)
Click to expand...

Without being able to decrypt the data there is no proof an illegal file has been downloaded. And more advanced systems are using traffic shaping and tunneling to bypass isp's traffic monitoring activities.
 
Last edited:
Well, we don't know every file you download, we could find out every unencrypted file but it's more hassle than it's worth. What we can do easily is analyse the traffic flows on our DSL routers.

P2p gives very distinct flows (large numbers of connections to large numbers of unrelated IPs, held open for a long time transfering data at a relatively slow rate). That sort of information could be obtained as easily as reading the flows of your routers and running software to analyse them.

Better is specialist equipment that exists only to do this kind of analysis.

This kind of technology is actually much better implemented by consumer ISPs, we do it becasue we have a DSL platform which supports home workers of our business customers (national newspapers etc). Business ISPs in general don't have so much call for this technology as consumer ones.

My understanding is most consumer ISPs have had the technology (Redback routers being the usual equipment) in place for 2 years now...
 
Energize said:
Thats called bad design. And is used far too often as an excuse for isps to make even more money, by putting more users on a system that is nowhere near capable of sustaining them. If you offer someone a 10MB connection, then you should have a system capable of handling that, if not charge for data transferred not speed. The whole point of broadband is being able to transfer large amounts of data quickly. There is so much false advertising and over subscribing from isps these days.
Click to expand...

No it's not, it's called contention, no ISP in the UK has a completely uncontended connection for their broadband users. Our fibre links for real customers are completely uncontended and will always remain that way, broadband will never be that way unless people pay for it (not likely)
 
Last edited:
bigredshark said:
Well, we don't know every file you download, we could find out every unencrypted file but it's more hassle than it's worth. What we can do easily is analyse the traffic flows on our DSL routers.

P2p gives very distinct flows (large numbers of connections to large numbers of unrelated IPs, held open for a long time transfering data at a relatively slow rate). That sort of information could be obtained as easily as reading the flows of your routers and running software to analyse them.
Click to expand...
Doesn't prove someone is doing something illegal.
 
Tombo said:
Doesn't prove someone is doing something illegal.
Click to expand...

No, but I don't care very much, show those kind of traffic patterns consistently over a period of time and I'll happilly throttle your connection to 56k speeds. You might be downloading a linux ISO or whatever, but not when you do it every day for a week...
 
bigredshark said:
No, but I don't care very much, show those kind of traffic patterns consistently over a period of time and I'll happily throttle your connection to 56k speeds. You might be downloading a Linux ISO or whatever, but not when you do it every day for a week...
Click to expand...

That's rather harsh if the customer is within their usage limits...
 
WotDa said:
Prove he wasn't in the US and then post that.
Click to expand...



Or that he wasn't lying. :p

bigredshark said:
No, but I don't care very much, show those kind of traffic patterns consistently over a period of time and I'll happilly throttle your connection to 56k speeds. You might be downloading a linux ISO or whatever, but not when you do it every day for a week...
Click to expand...

What nazi isp are you working for then? Disgraceful service, it's people like you that make isps so hated. People are paying for a broadband connection not a 56k one.
 
Last edited:
Bry said:
The main thing as said that would severly hinder this if not stop it completly would be encryption.
If we look at the 2 main P2P technologies- Newsgroups and Torrents we already see effective encryption systems that are mainly not used. Newsgroup servers are starting to offer encryption now so this hole is being closed as more people will take it up if this law gets into the House of Commons. So if newsgroup downloading of copy righted files is to be stopped then going after the servers themselves will be 'their' next 'goal'.
If we next look at torrents, Utorrent is probably one of the main clients used and that has good encryption built in to but, it is default to turned off. The makers need to simply release a new version with it defaulted to on (this would cause a few other problems but, we won't get into that) then again this could make it a lot harder to track what is going on via torrents.

There are also simple technologies out their that ill block recording studios and others from even connecting to you as a 'sharer' so they cant subpoena the ISP in the first place. (This doesn't deal with ISP's actively monitoring you tho)
Click to expand...

I think encryption on torrents and PeerGuardian is all very good in that your ISP can't 'see' what data your downloading - however the RIAA and the like can still get your IP and how much data/what you've downloaded from the tracker logs when they seize the servers - which has happened a few times before.
 
WotDa said:
That's rather harsh if the customer is within their usage limits...
Click to expand...

Obviously if a user is downloading 20GB a month I'll likely leave them be...

Everything is within the FUP, not that we need it. All our DSL conenction are paid for by employers, who take a dim view of their employees using them to download crap.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom