Israel-Hamas war - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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They said 230 were killed attended a concert in Israel. Image that, go to watch a concert and there's death in the 100's. Just seen the footage of the young woman being dragged away by a horde of men. Jesus. Shocking. **** Hamas.
 
Sankari said:
Doesn't change the fact that it was still the Jews' land. They were under an occupation, and they were outnumbered, but they still lived there.
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This is insane. It is utterly nonsensical to claim that dubious lines of inheritance from well over a thousand years ago apply.

Better give Britain back to the Celts, hey?
 
Mr Jack said:
This is insane. It is utterly nonsensical to claim that dubious lines of inheritance from well over a thousand years ago apply.

Better give Britain back to the Celts, hey?
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* it's not insane

* it's not 'dubious lines of inheritance', it's an extremely well documented history of residence in their own land, just like any other indigenous people; the point is that they have always lived there, they never stopped living there, they were just constantly invaded and occupied by more powerful forces

* the Celts don't exist anymore

* we gave former colonies back to their indigenous people, should we have kept them instead?
 
Sankari said:
it's not 'dubious lines of inheritance'
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Most of the people granted land in Palestine came from elsewhere.

we gave former colonies back to their indigenous people, should we have kept them instead?
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We did (sort of, with plenty of exceptions and arbitrary decisions). Except in Israel. And, partially as a result of that, the current cycle of repression and violence ensued.
 
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ATiRubyfan said:
Long long ago, the inhabitants of present day Israel/Palestine were Palestinian Arabs. When Hitler was killing Jews, they fled and they decided to go to the promised land in the Jewish bible. So, all the Jewish refugees flocked to present day Israel/Palestine. They initially lived in refugee camps and then later armed themselves and started attacking the natives and ultimately kicked them out into modern day Palestine. Ever since, the refugees have remained as the oppressors who have controlled their movements and stopped them from becoming a country.
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Another small mind for the ignore list.
 
Mr Jack said:
We did (sort of, with plenty of exceptions and arbitrary decisions). Except in Israel. And, partially as a result of that, the current cycle of repression and violence ensued.
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The area was not a British colony in the traditional sense and we did try to give both sides independence. Britain, along with both Palestinian and Jewish fighters, defeated the Ottoman Empire in the region in WW1. Britain then administered the area under the British Mandate agreed by the League of Nations (now the UN).

Due to the complex history of the area Britain and the United Nations tried to resolve "ownership" by proposing a two state system, where both the Palestinians and the Israelis would have their own independent countries. The Israelis agreed to the division but the Palestinians rejected it. Both sides have been fighting for survival ever since
 
Sankari said:
Yes. But it was not returned to the Jews in 1947 on that basis. It was returned to them because they are the longest surviving inhabitants, with the longest connection to the land in recorded history.
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LOL @ 'Inhabitants', about 25,000 were inhabitants, the rest of them emigrated there from elsewhere. 90%+ of the inhabitants were Palestinian.
 
Sankari said:
* it's not insane

* it's not 'dubious lines of inheritance', it's an extremely well documented history of residence in their own land, just like any other indigenous people; the point is that they have always lived there, they never stopped living there, they were just constantly invaded and occupied by more powerful forces

* the Celts don't exist anymore

* we gave former colonies back to their indigenous people, should we have kept them instead?
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The US and Australia says "hi". I guess we should return those to the natives... I won't hold my breath, tho.
 
I do have some sympathies for the Palestinian people however I cannot condone what Hamas have done.... I just wish people (and the press etc) could make the distinction between Terrorists committing horrific acts and the rest of the Palestinian population... We didn't tar all Irish people with the IRA for example...
 
Richie said:
I do have some sympathies for the Palestinian people however I cannot condone what Hamas have done.... I just wish people (and the press etc) could make the distinction between Terrorists committing horrific acts and the rest of the Palestinian population... We didn't tar all Irish people with the IRA for example...
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Unless I am mistaken, Hamas are the voted ruling political party in Palestine. That's like saying "don't blame the German people for WW2 when it was just the Nazi's / Hitler committing horrific acts".

I'm well aware that is a gross simplification, but what's going on today is nothing like the IRA situation.
 
Those people include the Israeli, Gaza retaliation - they do not seem to have discussed targetting attacks on where missiles were launched from, or targetting launchers,
which with overflight(& usa help) they should be able to identify. versus seemingly arbitrary retaliation locations ... based on what intelligence.

r4 today - parents of concert goers were blaming Israeli govt with as much vitriol as Hamas,
seems about 4km from the border , diificult, for european to imagine going about your daily life in proximity to this powder keg.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
LOL @ 'Inhabitants', about 25,000 were inhabitants, the rest of them emigrated there from elsewhere. 90%+ of the inhabitants were Palestinian.
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Most of the migration occurred after Israel declared independence in 1947. According to this article there were approximately 650,000 Jews living in Israel at the time of independence in 1947. From 1948 to 1951 after independence was declared approximately 688,000 more people migrated to Israel (and another 188,000 by the end of the decade). The point being that most of the migration into Israel happened after independence.

www.myjewishlearning.com

The Mass Migration to Israel of the 1950s | My Jewish Learning

Mass Migration to Israel. Building Israel. The Birth of Israel. Jewish History from 1948 - 1980. Modern Jewish History. Jewish History and Community.
www.myjewishlearning.com www.myjewishlearning.com

I'm struggling to find and understand Palestinian figures. But this article seems to suggest there were around 270,000 in the West Bank, at least 160,000 in the Gaza Strip, around 150,000 in Israel itself totalling around 580,000 Palestinians. There were somewhere between 1 million to 1.5 million Arabic inhabitants in the area before the start of WW1 under the Ottoman Empire. But the suggestion in the article is that many of those people had left during the war and before the creation of Israel.

www.britannica.com

Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict | Britannica

Palestine - Occupation, Refugees, Conflict: If one chief theme in the post-1948 pattern was embattled Israel and a second the hostility of its Arab neighbors, a third was the plight of the huge number of Arab refugees. The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab...
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com

I may have misunderstood those figures. I'm really not an expert on this area of history. But on the face of it there doesn't appear to be a 90% Palestinian population which was overrun by Jewish immigrants. It appears to be roughly a 50/50 split in the area just before Israeli independence in 1947. There was then a period of significant Jewish immigration after independence.
 
Grim5 said:
Wall Street Journal from its "sources"

The plan for a combined attack on Israel was developed between Hamas, Iran and Russia from August to October 2023. When everything was ready, Tehran gave the green light for the operation, - The Wall Street Journal


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That's not true and you have made that up- it's nonsense.

I've checked the original article and it does not mention russia, anywhere. The article pins the blame on Iran, for collaborating with Hamas in planning the at0tack. No other country is mentioned, or even alluded to.

The usual applies here
1 twitter story posted, with no context or quoting
2 no fact-checking
3 twitter source is paywalled, so casual readers will be misled
4 abstract is outright nonsense that doesn't quote the original source

I really don't understand why you keep doing this.
 
potatolord said:
That's not true and you have made that up- it's nonsense.

I've checked the original article and it does not mention russia, anywhere. The article pins the blame on Iran, for collaborating with Hamas in planning the at0tack. No other country is mentioned, or even alluded to.

The usual applies here
1 twitter story posted, with no context or quoting
2 no fact-checking
3 twitter source is paywalled, so casual readers will be misled
4 abstract is outright nonsense that doesn't quote the original source

I really don't understand why you keep doing this.
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What's concerning is how many seem to take it on face value.
 
Grim5 said:
Musk recommending people follow pro hamas Twitter accounts



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The genius that is Elon linked @WarMonitors when that is a pro Russia, pro Hamas/Hezbollah account. @WarMonitor is probably the account he meant. He ended up deleting the tweet 12 hours later but he'd already pushed it to his 150m followers. What a douche.
 
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