Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

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Soldato
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However, muslims treat other cultures in exactly the same way and with the same level of violent intolerance and racism, so I've not a huge amount of sympathy to hear them complain when it's done to them.

Now that's just not true. I have 50 Muslims in my mind right now who aren't like that. Cant think of a single one I personally know who is like that. :confused:

Although I have met intolerant people from all backgrounds, I would try to get an intolerant Muslim to be tolerant just as I would any other person.
 
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Why are you comparing Jews (religion) to a Country (Palestinians), was Einstein Israeli?
I've no idea, I thought he was German?

Sigh, points proven.... What you mean is you don't care because you are a despicable person.
Not really, I don't care because I've no connection to a video of people being shot.

Life and cruelty isn't judged by what one may offer to humanity potentially, in fact apart from a few twisted people I don't think there is anyone in the world who wouldn't care after witnessing a child, regardless of country, being shot/
That would require an emotional response to every news item, and actually nobody would get out of bed if that were true.
If somone shot a Palestinian cat then I would care.

Not sure what that gets me on the despicable person scale?

Again sigh.. anyhow I was referring to the Jewish belief of they are the chosen ones and god promised them land.
Umm, OK,
actually they were promised land when the messiah returns, so technically they shouldn't be settling anywhere for now. Picking out cushions for Palestine is a bit presumptious. Although I can understand that waiting around for the end of the world is a chore.
 
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Now that's just not true. I have 50 Muslims in my mind right now who aren't like that. Cant think of a single one I personally know who is like that. :confused:
Well obviously all the horrible muslims in the world are not acquainted with you,
what are the odds?

Although the fact remains that they exist and they like to post updates of their horribleness on youtube.
 
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if people can look at youtube of "terrorist/horrible muslims",, might i suggest watching videos of little children being killed by democratic Israel too.. not that you should only feel compassion after watching such an awful thing.
 
Soldato
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Well obviously all the horrible muslims in the world are not acquainted with you,
what are the odds?

Although the fact remains that they exist and they like to post updates of their horribleness on youtube.

But there's horrible people from absolutely all religions on youtube.

Of course you hate Muslims if you're actively seeking bad ones to base your opinions on.

Which was exactly my point. I base my opinions on my own extensive personal experiences. Nothing on youtube can possibly be a basis for judging an entire populace or race, let alone a bunch of "horrible muslims".
 
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Soldato
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I've no idea, I thought he was German?

If you cant keep up to your own reasoning, then what hope does anyone have if you don't know.

Not really, I don't care because I've no connection to a video of people being shot.

That would require an emotional response to every news item, and actually nobody would get out of bed if that were true.
If somone shot a Palestinian cat then I would care.

Even when people can see Palestinian babies getting shot, nobody cares..

I have nothing to add

Not sure what that gets me on the despicable person scale?

Do the math, it's not hard.

Thanks for signalling the end of this discussion, I can only pray you are drunk and very tired.
 
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But there's horrible people from absolutely all religions on youtube.
Umm, nope,
all the wars at the moment are Islamic ones :confused:

There has to be something kicking off in Africa, but nobody cares there either.
Of course you hate Muslims if you're actively seeking bad ones to base your opinions on.
What if you don't hate muslims but all the videos out there are islamist?
Does it mean that only islamists make videos?

If you cant keep up to your own reasoning, then what hope does anyone have if you don't know.
You asked me if Eistein was an Israeli?
Not sure why...

Cratorloads, I'm not the one shooting babies, honest.


And it's dawn surprisingly... come tomorrow this thread will get deleted despite being slightly interesting, and I'll get banned because that how it works \o/
 
Soldato
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Actually I've suggested their actions are terrorist in nature and they clearly don't like you.

However, muslims treat other cultures in exactly the same way and with the same level of violent intolerance and racism, so I've not a huge amount of sympathy to hear them complain when it's done to them.
Plus I don't see a solution unless Palestinians go somewhere else.

Yes you are right.


See, this is where you go off the track a bit :confused:

Yeh, dirty pro Israel people :mad: we only want pro-Palestinians in here.
Down with two sided debates!

Yes it's great when hours of thread research gets deleted, but then I'm not the one slating other people for merely disagreeing witth me...

ignore works for me, do it.

You dont have a lot of sympathy towards to innocent civilians in Palestine because of bad actions of a minority of the majority of muslims around the world?

So I guess your okay with things like this based on that opinion?

9j0epz.jpg


There are some really horribley graphic images coming from Palestine the past week and most of them are children.

The force used by Israel is absolutely absurd, its like fighting flies with nuclear missiles. The more innocents that they kill the more angry people they will create who will then in turn want to kill israelis and they will do that how ever they can because they cant fight jet strikes and drone strikes can they.

Israel cries victim non stop but they are provoking everyday by settling Palestinian land! Then killing innocent civilians with extreme force.

I am not saying Palestine is an innocent party but the majority of the population are! Children included!
 
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Soldato
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Probably best if a mod locks this, as we seem to have the far right and far left people arguing with each other drowning out the people in the middle.
Yes Israel is doing bad things with the land grabs but in fairness they are actually developing the land unlike the Palestinian country. Israel has offered to supply power and water from its plants which has been rejected.
The Palestinians are in a ****e situation with a big power on its door step but they have vented their a grievance the wrong way. By breaking the ceasefire and firing rockets at civilian targets, by kidnapping teenage boy's and torturing them then as a country celebrating them. Kinda errodes any sympathy I have for them.

The child killings are unfortunate but if Hama's didn't purposefully set up weapon systems in built up civilian areas it wouldn't happen.

I honestly feel the Jewish community is more trustworthy with the city of Jerusalem than eith er Christianity or Islam as they have never the dogma or previous for destroying other religions monuments.

The real question is if Israel give back the land that they have 'taken' what's stopping the Arab nations around them from performing a act of genocide on them?
Israel is in a dammed if they do dammed if they don't situation.
 
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Conflict is better stopped by extinguishing peoples hate through teaching and discussions.

No, that's not true.

Conflict is better stopped by one nation obliterating their enemy nation or absorbing them into their own culture. Historical precedents by the hundreds of that working perfectly.

Besides which, I don't need my hate being extinguished by the likes of you (I know nothing about you by the way so it's not personal) or anyone else. I don't have any hate really, but I'd prefer none of my opinions or feelings were extinguished!
 
Soldato
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In this thread, people who 'hate Jews' and people who 'hate Muslims' try to make out that having that standpoint doesn't identify them as extremely objectionable people.
 
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About 21,000 people have been killed since the Israeli-Palestinian conflict began, most of them Palestinian, over 60 years. So either it isn't genocide or the Israelis are so rubbish at it that they can't even manage in 60 years what Hitler managed in a week.

What Israel is doing is wrong, without a doubt, but it isn't genocide. Considering the conventional firepower they have at their disposal, never mind their nuclear arsenal, if the Israelis really did want to commit genocide then the death toll would be horrendous.

This
 
Soldato
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Probably best if a mod locks this, as we seem to have the far right and far left people arguing with each other drowning out the people in the middle.
Yes Israel is doing bad things with the land grabs but in fairness they are actually developing the land unlike the Palestinian country. Israel has offered to supply power and water from its plants which has been rejected.
The Palestinians are in a ****e situation with a big power on its door step but they have vented their a grievance the wrong way. By breaking the ceasefire and firing rockets at civilian targets, by kidnapping teenage boy's and torturing them then as a country celebrating them. Kinda errodes any sympathy I have for them.

The child killings are unfortunate but if Hama's didn't purposefully set up weapon systems in built up civilian areas it wouldn't happen.

I honestly feel the Jewish community is more trustworthy with the city of Jerusalem than eith er Christianity or Islam as they have never the dogma or previous for destroying other religions monuments.

The real question is if Israel give back the land that they have 'taken' what's stopping the Arab nations around them from performing a act of genocide on them?
Israel is in a dammed if they do dammed if they don't situation.

I agree with you, but i think you've overlooked some facts.

For a start, Gaza is so heavily populated that its hard not to be in a civillian area. Secondly, because it's so small, it'd be hard to find one of the few open pieces of land and build weapon on it as Israel would find out straight away. Thirdly, if they feel that they are an independent nation then they should feel they have a right to have an "army" or "defense force". If they feel they are being provoked by a foreign power by trade embargo's, aid blocks etc and they can't arrange a meeting then I can quickly understand why they'd feel the only next logical step is "force".

We keep going further and further down a path of no return. I think the best solution would be to keep the status quo on Israel in terms of support, but say they must give full authority to the Fatah/Hamas unity government of the whole of the west bank and Gaza. If they are concerned about Israeli settlements then unfortunately its a case of that jewish population has chosen to move there into a "foreign" country. So they need to accept it as it comes or move again as their houses are arguably illegal anyway.

Israel would then have to completely comply with that arrangement or face funding . weapon supplies being removed. The Arab region would have to accept this arrangement. Possibly having a joint police force / army would be a healthy thing too, but i guess there'll be a lot of bad blood. I understand this arrangement won't ever happen as there's a lot of powerful people heavily tied between the US and Israel. Money talks.
 
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In this thread, people who 'hate Jews' and people who 'hate Muslims' try to make out that having that standpoint doesn't identify them as extremely objectionable people.

Who cares if it does? Being a jolly nice chap isn't the meaning of life you know. I personally can't stand all this namby-pamby whimpering about rights and unfair treatment.
 
Soldato
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Probably best if a mod locks this, as we seem to have the far right and far left people arguing with each other drowning out the people in the middle.
Yes Israel is doing bad things with the land grabs but in fairness they are actually developing the land unlike the Palestinian country. Israel has offered to supply power and water from its plants which has been rejected.
The Palestinians are in a ****e situation with a big power on its door step but they have vented their a grievance the wrong way. By breaking the ceasefire and firing rockets at civilian targets, by kidnapping teenage boy's and torturing them then as a country celebrating them. Kinda errodes any sympathy I have for them.

The child killings are unfortunate but if Hama's didn't purposefully set up weapon systems in built up civilian areas it wouldn't happen.

I honestly feel the Jewish community is more trustworthy with the city of Jerusalem than eith er Christianity or Islam as they have never the dogma or previous for destroying other religions monuments.

The real question is if Israel give back the land that they have 'taken' what's stopping the Arab nations around them from performing a act of genocide on them?
Israel is in a dammed if they do dammed if they don't situation.

Well said. :)
 
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The force used by Israel is absolutely absurd, its like fighting flies with nuclear missiles.

Lol what?! It's not at all. You'll find that the rockets being fired in to Israel are incredibly deadly when they hit. A quick Google or hunt on ******** will show you the devastation they can cause.
Also last time I checked Israel possess nuclear weapons...how many times have they been used?
Talk about a massive over exaggeration!

They ain't exactly showing restraint but what would you do if you had people firing hundreds of rockets at your country? Just sit and take it?
 
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Read this blog about it last week. Pretty much sums it up TBH. Had to remove the colourful language, but you get the point.

COMPASSION FATIGUE – WHY THE WEST IS WASHING ITS HANDS
The night before the three Israeli teens were found dead, I had a particularly vivid nightmare. I have no doubt it was caused by seeing too many shots and videos of Isis barbarity; crucifixions, amputations, Muslim men lined up like cattle to be shot in a ditch by other Muslims.

I do not remember most of the dream, apart from the sequence that woke me up. Two children, around seven, were blindfolded and an ISIS terrorist was preparing to kill them. In my dream I screamed out for mercy, saying they were just children, and flung myself towards them and then I woke up, heart pounding, drenched in sweat.

Later in the same day, on Twitter, the UN posted a picture of a Syrian child reaching up for a hug. Assad and Putin are starving these children to death, operating mass torture factories. We didn’t act and now it’s too late. ISIS filled the gap left by Obama. And they spread. Evil against evil.

In Nigeria, Boko Haram kidnapped 90 more girls. These are Christian women who will be forced at gunpoint to pretend to convert to Islam, then raped for the rest of their lives to men to whom they are sold.

In the Sudan, Meriam Ibrahim, Christian, wife of one American and mother of two more, was released from Sudanese custody after the US embassy apologised – yes, apologised – for issuing her a visa. The Sudan is currently detaining her two American children and Obama is doing nothing.

When later that same day I heard the teenagers were found dead, I could not imagine the horror of their mothers, or fathom that Hamas – who at one stage wanted to be thought legitimate – would blatantly say nothing to admit guilt in kidnapping them and shooting them. How scared they must have been.

And my dream came back to me very vividly. How I had screamed out to the man begging him for mercy. I wanted to beg a sorrowing and vengeful Israel for mercy. Please, go after the killers but only them. Please, do not storm into the West Bank and engage in collective punishment. Because then somebody else’s boys might die. I said as much on Twitter and was immediately accused of being anti-Israeli, a typical European and an Arabist.

Israel went in and blew up the houses of the suspected kidnappers. These kidnappers have not been caught or tried, but their house was blown up. A child was injured. Another teen, Yusuf was his name – Joseph, in Western parlance, a Hebrew name – aged 18 was shot in the chest in a refugee camp in Jenin. IDF forces say he threw a grenade at them. Palestinians claim he was a passer by. One thing is for sure, neither the injured child nor the dead teen played any role in murdering the three Israeli boys. But they were the ones who were hurt. If Israel invades Gaza, civiliians, probably young children too, will die. That is a fact.

But to say as much is to be anti-Israeli? No; no. And to say to the Muslim world, your silence is disgusting on ISIS, your funding of Syrian terror is disgusting; you fat *******s in your radical mosques in Bradford and elsewhere, radicalising English boys and sending them off to die while you sit at home doing sod all but get fat. Fatness is a part of it. Fatness, slovenliness, warmongering from teststerone free ****ers who would no more endanger themselves than go for a jog in the morning or get a real job. Is that Islamophobia? God no, no it is not. Who is killing more Muslims than anybody else? Is it Obama’s drones or Israeli rockets? No, it’s OTHER ****** MUSLIMS – ISIS are the biggest Islamophobes in the whole world.

And so when I say to Israel for the love of G-d, go after those who took your boys and no more, and am greeted by a cry of traitor, I feel like putting my head in my hands.

I think it’s time for some straight talk.

Israel, I don’t care if you are tired of the word ‘restraint’. You need to show some. Because you are losing the West. You have no idea how badly you are losing the west. Yes, Hamas are terrorists. Yes, subhuman pigs slaughtered the Fogel children, and Palestinians just as subhuman celebrated that. By all means, go after them. But if you cannot go in precisely, do not go in at all. When the IRA bombed London we did not strike Dublin. We went after individuals. Israel, I say to you with my hand on my heart; the Gaza rocket strikes have killed NO ISRAELIS. They don’t WORK. They are the weak efforts of losers. you need to understand that the West does not think it is proportionate to reply to NO DEATH with DEATH. Would I stand for rockets, would I stand for my children with PTSD because of constant rocket fire, no I would not. But my answer would be just as the earlier operations in #BringBackOurBoys – go in and capture Hamas leaders and politicians. Take the individuals. Jail them. They are terrorists. Try them. In a court. Do not reply to NO DEATH with DEATH. Hamas strikes do not kill Israelis but Israeli strikes do kill Palestinian civilians. And the rest of the world believes this imbalance is wrong.

‘Screw you, why the hell should you care what we think?” Well, you should care because with every settlement you build you are losing American public opinion. And that means that American Jews VOTE DEMOCRAT. And that means you get Barack Obama as your President and John Kerry as Secretary of State. That means you get Syria. And ISIS. That means you weaken Israel. Materially. In terms.

Israel is the victim of amazing hatred, the hatred that posts swastikas on Facebook pages to celebrate the death of those three kidnapped boys. And Israel was right – absolutely right – to build that giant wall. No Israeli buses or cafés have blown up since. The rockets do nor work. Israelis are safe.

But dearest Israel, you have no right to be in the settlements. Nobody thinks you have a right to be in the settlements. The 2012 film the Gatekeepers, featuring the last six heads of the Shin Bet, showed Israeli intelligence forces did not want the settlements. There will be no peace and no security until the settlements come down. You must dismantle the settlements unless you wish to live in this sick and deadly farce until the end of time.

And Palestine. You must stop your vicious attacks, your celebration of dead Israeli babies taken from their cots and decapitated, of the four year old Fogel boy who was reading his book in his bed when they slit his throat. You come across as inhuman, subhuman hatemongers when you do that. You MUST RECOGNISE THE STATE OF ISRAEL and give up this right to return crap. The land belonged to the Jews before it belonged to you. It is theirs. They are not going anywhere. You should take the occupied territories and build on them and live in a two-state solution with peace.

And Muslims need to stop looking at Israel whose crimes are so few in comparison to those of Assad, of Putin, of ISIS, of Saddam – of the Saudi secret police who burned those girls alive for being improperly veiled. Jerusalem is the least of the enemies of the Ummah. The sick Iraqi cycle of Sunni in power, oppress Shia, Shia in power, oppress Sunni – Islam now is fighting as Christianity did in the 1500s, with all the accompanying tortures and burnings at the stake. They are crucifying other Muslims in Iraq. They are gassing Muslim children in Syria. They are stoning Muslim rape victims and lashing them. They are stoning mothers for adultery. They are hanging Iranian gay Muslim men. I know one thing, I know that Allah – that HaShem, that God – is ****ed off with the lot of us.

And here’s the thing. Feel free to ignore all this and write comments saying how awful I am and have no idea. But I will tell you something. The appetite of the ordinary Western voter to lift a finger – even to help in Syria as Muslim children starve – it has totally evaporated. The thought of Israel invading Gaza in some sick act of collective punishment leaves American and British voters cold. Nobody gives a flying **** anymore. The average Westerner is saying to themselves “these are a bunch of savages and who cares if they kill each other.” Iraq will get no help. Afghans will get none. Syrians will get none. We hear no cries of outrage from the Muslim world. We see no moves from Israel to move to a just peace and get out of territory that does not belong to Israel, the settlements. We see no willingness to compromise and nothing more than a bloody merry go round of torture and death by ******* adults who will throw children and families to the wind because they will never, ever back down.

And so we just don’t care.

And by “we” I mean almost all voters. Not me – I care, I care incredibly. I wanted targeted air strikes against Assad. Now instead we have ISIS crucifying Muslims and Syrian kids starving.

The Torah says, “Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord” – that means, it is mine to take; it is not yours to take. Te Qu’ran begins “In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.” Say it and believe it. What is He? What is He? Is Allah the Merciful pleased as you shoot teenage boys in the head for being Jews, or Muslims in a ditch because they follow a different sect to you?

The Middle East is the cradle of civilization. If it carries on like this, it will also be its grave.

And you will all – Israelis, Palestinians, and Arabs and Persians – you will all be on your own.​

Whilst I don't agree with everything above, it is probably one of the best to date
 
Soldato
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Who cares if it does? Being a jolly nice chap isn't the meaning of life you know. I personally can't stand all this namby-pamby whimpering about rights and unfair treatment.
Isn't it?

What benefit does it have to you being bitter and hate filled?

I would say that live the best life you can while causing the least trouble to others is a pretty bleeding good creed to live by.

"Hate this entire group of people because of their colour, their culture, my ignorance" however is simply the mark of an utter [redacted].
 
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