Italian Grand Prix 2011, Monza Circuit - Race 13/19

[GravyMonster]

I'm pretty sure from onboard shots that Button's final gear was longer than Hamiltons. From that onboard vid, only once does Lewis get over 330km/h, and he's banging the limiter at about 332. IIRC the same graphic had Button topping out about 338.

It'd be interesting to hear if this was a drivers or engineers choice.

 

[utajoker]

I'm pretty sure from onboard shots that Button's final gear was longer than Hamiltons. From that onboard vid, only once does Lewis get over 330km/h, and he's banging the limiter at about 332. IIRC the same graphic had Button topping out about 338.

It'd be interesting to hear if this was a drivers or engineers choice.

what was vettel hitting on the straights?

it would have been good to see him battling tbh.

 

[GravyMonster]

what was vettel hitting on the straights?

Just checked on YT from qualifying and he maxes out at 328 with DRS open - probably would have been a few ks higher to the limiter should he have had a slipstream in the race.

 

[Duke]

Both Mclarens were the same, 329-330 on start/finish line.

 

[el_dazza]

That video of Hamilton/Schumacher is brilliant

 

[el_dazza]

In poor conditions with the team taking a wet weather gamble. Not saying he didn't do well that day, but it wasn't ALL him.

To be fair, his results that year were 5th, 8th, 12th, R, 8th, R, 6th, 5th, 1st, 5th, 6th, 9th, 4th.

He did fantastically well in a lower midfield car, compared to Bourdais who scored 4 points

 

[smr]

That video was so frustrating to watch from a 'wanting Lewis to get past' perspective. He must have been in a complete rage inside that helment on Sunday.

At the same time I think the press are maybe being a bit too harsh on Schumacher, when you see the racing from that perspective it's evident that the Mclaren was just not as fast.

I even remember saying to the missus during the race something like "wow - that Mercedes is ridiculously fast " - something I've not said once about it on any other race.

And we all saw what there straight line speed was like in Belgium, well, I was sat there on the Kemmel straight and can tell you, it really has got some gusto when it comes to straight lines - so in a sense it was to be expected that this car was gonna beast around Monza.

As someone else said in the youtube comments the topline speed even with DRS wasn't matching the Mercedes. I think the Merc team could be real dark horses next year. All people seem to be talking about are RB, Ferrari and Mclaren, but if they're developing this car nicely for next season it could be one to watch out for!

 

[MooMoo444]

Is there a race next weekend?

 

[utajoker]

As someone else said in the youtube comments the topline speed even with DRS wasn't matching the Mercedes. I think the Merc team could be real dark horses next year. All people seem to be talking about are RB, Ferrari and Mclaren, but if they're developing this car nicely for next season it could be one to watch out for!

they are good with low aero packages but cant match the others on the higher downforce stuff. add to that their ability to burn up rear tyres like mad they struggle after the first few laps.

Is there a race next weekend?

no, week after.

 

[arknor]

yea merc lack rear downforce compared to the top teams

 

[3dcandy]

but schumachers tyres started going off towards the end of nthat battle as you could tell from how much closer hamiltin was bale to get at some points of the circuit, by time button got there the tyres were pretty much finished making it a fairly easy pass compared to what hamilton had to put up with.

button also has the luxury of slowling closing in on the battle saving his tyres where as hamilton had little choice other than to go for it and try to make a pass stick.

its a pitty though as if hamilton wouldnt have pressured schumacher they probably would have managed to overtake alonso, if you didnt notice schumacher and hamilton at the early part were catching alonso up to the point where schumacher tried to make a move on alonso but once hamilton put schumacher under a lot of pressure forcing him to drive defensise alonso started to disapear back off into the distance again

And? Hamilton is supposed to be a great overtaker, aggressive etc. He was poor on Sunday, not aggressive enough and paid the price. Button's racecraft is far superior to Hamilton's and he's now proving so with a legitimate win in dry conditions from behind. Had 1 chance to nail Schuey and took it. Doesn't matter that Hamiltons and Schumachers tyres had gone off, Lewis couldn't beat him while Jenson could. The pro Hamilton people have got to say that he was beaten fair and square, he's behind in the championship to his teammate, he's having a hard time with stewards and pundits alike over his crashing and then failing to overtake and seeing his teammate manage it fairly easy must have him worried...Hamilton must understand that sometimes you need to wait and this was proved again at Monza. His fans always point to the fact his teammate has struggled to beat him in the dry..but no longer!

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Don't know if it has been posted, but a great article from Brundle over on the BBC -


Interesting and I completely agree...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14883755.stm

Did we see a consistency of application of driving standards rules? No.

Have drivers been penalised for less than Schumacher did? Yes.

Has Hamilton been punished for less? Yes.

I thought Hamilton handled the post-race interviews very maturely.

With the information I have would I have penalised Schumacher in the race? No, we need quality racing and it's meant to be tough out there, but a reprimand may have been appropriate.

 

[dannyjo22]

The regulations are very clear that you cannot force another driver off the track. It should have been at least investigated as to whether Alonso did this to Vettel, and Schumacher to Hamilton.

Yet this happens 20 times per season minimum and it's never punished, why the fuss now about Vettel/Alonso and MS/Hamilton. If it's always been against the rules they should have sorted it years ago.

The only way the issue will really be sorted is when a driver pushes another onto the grass and flying debris from the crash hurts a member of the public.

Ross Brawns interview in this months F1 racing gave a very clear insight into MS. A brilliant interview, MS only knows one way. Maximum in every thing he does and screw every one else. really interesting that as sson as MS got back to the garage after the Jerez incident he blamed Villeneuve and wanted Ferrari to lodge a complaint against him.

I'd never heard that before. Personally I don't mind drivers changing direction multiple times to block as long as if the car had a wheel alongside the other car couldn't edge them off the road.

I find defensive driving as beautiful to watch when done right as much as any overtake.

 

[SKILL]

It also might help if you gave me some specific instances where I made contradictory statements. I eagerly await your response.

I really can't be bothered to go through your posts, are you saying it never happens? that you never alter your 'view' on someone to suit your argument at the time?

 

[FrankJH]

So in a comparison of the wheel-to-wheel racing abilities of the two drivers you pick:

snip

Sorry I hadnt realised the FIA had changed the rules and were now giving out the points mid-way through races now

What I stated (and what is clearly the case) is that in the last three times where JB and LH have had wheel to wheel action, the race results point to JB coming out ahead - which after all is what counts.

Its not JB's fault that LH has pushed bad positions and been punished for it, thats totally upto Lewis to sort out


Personally Im not surprised MS didnt get penalised (or even slapped on the wrist) - but even just from consistancy point of view he should have got something!!

 

[sunama]

What I stated (and what is clearly the case) is that in the last three times where JB and LH have had wheel to wheel action, the race results point to JB coming out ahead - which after all is what counts.

Indeed.

In the last few races, it must be said that Hamilton's form has not been great.
Button at this point in time is driving better and as such has overtaken Hamilton in the points standings.

I still believe though, that over the course of a FULL season, Hamilton will be the victor and fully expect Hamilton to finish on top in 2011.

 

[sunama]

I really can't be bothered to go through your posts, are you saying it never happens? that you never alter your 'view' on someone to suit your argument at the time?

How can I say 'yes' to that question when you are not even giving me an example of when I did, as you are suggesting?

It's almost like you are accusing someone of something and hoping that that accusation, in some random way, sticks.

Give me a specific example and I shall explain myself.

 

[3dcandy]

Indeed.

In the last few races, it must be said that Hamilton's form has not been great.
Button at this point in time is driving better and as such has overtaken Hamilton in the points standings.

I still believe though, that over the course of a FULL season, Hamilton will be the victor and fully expect Hamilton to finish on top in 2011.

You must admit though that he appears rattled this year eh! So quiet and so ineffective at Monza during the race...

 

[sunama]

Doesn't matter that Hamiltons and Schumachers tyres had gone off, Lewis couldn't beat him while Jenson could. The pro Hamilton people have got to say that he was beaten fair and square, he's behind in the championship to his teammate,

...

His fans always point to the fact his teammate has struggled to beat him in the dry..but no longer!

I agree with everything you say.

However, you cannot judge a driver or any sportsman, over a small set of races. Certainly, Button is currently in better form than Hamilton and Button beat Hamilton, in the last race, fair and square on a dry track.

Give Hamilton and Button till the end of the season and then see who emerges as top dog.

 

[3dcandy]

hell yeah I agree...first time I've seen him rattled like this though, bodes well for the future as they seem to be spurring each other on in a car that isn't great...