I've given up on LPG - the future is Electric.
- Thread starter Hawk Tuah
- Start date
Pretty much anything you touch has burnt a fossil fuel for it to have appeared, e.g. if you eat asparagus or bananas they use tonnes of fuel to import them etc.. I expect you can't even give birth these days without wasting some form of limited fuel 
There is no winning side, especially not the planet.
There is no winning side, especially not the planet.
So around 10% of the resultant refined energy source?
That has always been around the throughput cost for an oil refinery. I have always felt that Oil refining is a perfect application for Nuclear reactors.
A nice steady supply of process heat at around 400C, month in, month out. Just what Nuclear reactors love.
A Pebble bed reactor should meet the needs nicely and if the concept was adopted globally would save enough oil to be the equivalent of finding a major new oil producing region, let alone merely a new field.
I think the question should be is what are we going to do with all the spare unleaded and diesel once the majority of people are using electric. Lets face it were still going to be refining huge quantities of oil as we need marine fuel, aviation fuel and other by products i.e. plastic.
Electric isn't going away, most European countries want to ban ICE cars by 2030.
Soldato
Pretty much anything you touch has burnt a fossil fuel for it to have appeared, e.g. if you eat asparagus or bananas they use tonnes of fuel to import them etc.. I expect you can't even give birth these days without wasting some form of limited fuel
There is no winning side, especially not the planet.
This is we should just accept it and try to get through as much petrol as we can, the sooner we burn it all the sooner companies will come up with a viable alternative
Well, that or it goes all Mad Max...
Even if some (Relatively small, heavily urbanised, and very wealthy) countries are able to go full EV, the vast majority of vehicles on the planet are going to be petrol/diesel powered for the foreseeable future.
I do not see demand for Petrol/Diesel declining much globally this century.
The only thing that might force it down is if, indeed, the oil really does run out (And even then, Coal to Liquids might make a resurgence to take up the slack)
Soldato
Ban, or ban sales of new ICE engined vehicles?
A total ban would be difficult to implement until the vast majority of vehicles on the road were electric.
Associate
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It doesn't work like that, you never use it yourself. You sell it to the grid at 42p/kWh and buy some other back at 11p/kWh. Nothing but a bill-payer-subsidised financial scam.
so you get credit at 31p/kwh?
Caporegime
You get paid for whatever you generate, though the FIT rate is somewhat less than that now, but i suppose this is offset by the reduced cost of a solar system.
You can have it off-grid. But then you need an attic full of batteries to store the energy and a separate mains ring in your house
Problem is we just don't get enough sun over here for it to be all that viable.
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New sales rather than complete ban.
Its expected that new EV sales will hit 10% of all car sales in 2020 and basically waterfall from there. The last few % will be difficult as there are use cases where a P100D is still not suitable.
Oil is not going to run out anytime soon, not in my life time nor my great great grandkids
It would have to be banned first or a complete alternative that makes oil useless.
Exactly.
I remember some 20 years ago nailing my colours to the mast with....
a) Oil will not "run out" in the foreseeable future
b) Oil will not "Sustain" above $100/Bbl
The point is that above $100Bbl, the available fossil fuel alternatives have reserves running into the thousands of years.
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They will miss that target my a long way. EVs are still far to expensive for what you get. Plus the only ones petrol heads pay any attention to are Tesla.
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Soldato
Petrol heads make up an infinitely tiny fraction of new car buyers. The vast majority buy what suits their needs and/or pocket.
Permabanned
For us though, this is a second car to take the slack of driving locally - which amount to the majority of our currently driving. It was also incredibly good value - and hopefully will continue to be cheap and good value for many years to come.
Doesn't sound that cheap... £6 for 60 miles? A 2.0L or smaller diesel will do that without much trouble while keeping to the speed limit.
When it comes to actual cost... won't the battery life make the car useless a long time before a small diesel engine would stop functioning... making the actual cost and general wastage higher?
Exactly, I don't think is arguing against the potential of electric cars, what people are arguing against is the point of switching to EVs now.
Which, for the huge majority of people (despite the claims) there is no point, and if there is a point, there is no option, due to quite fundamental problems like:
Huge cost vs performance and range offered.
Nowhere to charge them either at home or on the road (how do all those millions of people who live in terraced houses that open right onto a public pavement with no off road parking charge their car? How do people who live off the street with no off road parking charge their car?)
No viable option to charge them on the road (the great unwashed are not going to wait hours in a queue to charge their hatch back)
Infrastructure needs to come FIRST not a response to increased EV sales.
Make EV viable for all, with secure street side chargeing points for all (will never happen) mandatory EV charging provision for all public car parks (will never happen) , all work places that offer employee parking must offer a charging point, all new build houses must have an EV charging point, solar panels (will never happen) and people will switch.
My only viable option to go electric is the awful Nissan Leaf like the OP has, I have a 30 mile each way mixed commute with no charging facilities at work, judging by his experience of it so far, I wouldn't be able to get there and back every day.
I could buy or lease a tesla, but then I'm paying premium car money for a vehicle that doesn't offer the utility of a premium car.
Having a £7-9k electric car to do the odd bit of local commuting or a £2k 1.6 focus to do the same thing and still be able to drive to Scotland and back if needed.
As a second or third car for that kind of use they make even less sense.
It's like people who do naff all miles buying a 5.0 V8 to drove around in, the fuel costs are irrelevant as they are going nowhere, if they were doing 20k a year it's a big issue, but for 5kpa?
No issue at all.
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Maybe, but the emissions on a 5.0 V8 can't be small. Personally, and it's not going to be a popular way of thinking, but I'd legislate any car over 2-litres out of existence on our roads (ie for track day or similar use only) as we're reaching a tipping point where we either think of our own enjoyment (part selfishness) or actually start thinking about what our legacy will be for future generations. And while I'm in control all new build homes would have to have solar panels, with the economic, environmental and employment benefits that would bring