Japanese Grand Prix 2011, Suzuka Circuit - Race 15/19

Thoroughly enjoyed the race, pre-race build up and the F1 Forum, well worth getting up early for :).

Extremely happy to see Jenson win through in the end, top marks to Alonso as I didn't expect that result (and by his reaction, neither did he, lol). Very pleased that Schumacher kept his nose clean this race after the big mistake in Singapore, would have been nice to see Kobayashi get some points but gave himself too much to do at the beginning :(.

Certainly a well deserved WC for Vettel, has driven fantastically all season, sort of agree with above post ^ ^, however unlike the Schumacher era, the racing behind Vettel has been absolutely first class and there have been very few boring races this year.

Another early one this weekend, and I just hope that the final 4 races of the season are as good as they have been up to this point (going for an Alonso win I reckon)
 
CS||nuTs said:
and yet his fellow drivers think differently

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9611393.stm
Click to expand...


Now take out the ones who do not want to upset rb because they would like a job there and you will have NONE ;)
F1 today is all about being nice or the media will tear you apart. Glad I grew up watching Clark\Stewart\Hill\Senna ect

If you have the fastest car you will win. Everyone knew rb would take both wdc\wcc after the first four races this is why it's a none event.
 
FrankJH said:
and 99.9% of rookies dont get anywhere near a leading car for two years or more of coming into F1, without considering the gigantic amounts of funds McLaren invested in getting LH to F1 and staying with them

Im not knocking his results, they were very good indeed - but they also shouldnt really be considered comparable to pure "rookie" status either given the facts above
Click to expand...

JB joined Williams as a rookie. Yeah, it was at the start of their downwards slope, but there were still considered a top team then.

Jacques Villeneuve joined Williams as a rookie in 1996 and did very well. Williams were definitely a top team then.

DC joined Williams in 1994 as a rookie.

I'm sure there are others.

Yes, you are right, most rookies do not land great cars in their first year, but of all the ones that have, Hamilton did the best.

And again, its not luck that these people end up in good teams. Good teams employ drivers because they think they are good drivers. I don't get the thing about Hamilton "only doing well in his first season because he lucked his way into a good car". I'm sure he worked dam hard to get in that car, after all you don't win the GP2 title by being average (ignoring Maldonado).

EDIT: Just realised, he won the GP2 title in his first season, you definitely don't do that by being average.

I know this is going to make me look like a massive fanboy, but Lewis' car racing career:

2001: Formula Renault UK Winter series 5th
2002: Formula Renault UK 3rd
2003: Formula Renault UK 1st
2004: Formula Renault Euro Series 5th
2005: Formula Renault Euro Series 1st
2006: GP2 Series 1st
2007: F1 2nd
2008: F1 1st
2009: F1 5th
2010: F1 4th
2011: F1 5th
 
Last edited:
I barely watched the GP, especially after getting my iplayer and repeats mixed up and turning on just in time to see Vettell cross the line. :( Still, at least Jenson won and Hammy dug himself in to slightly deeper hole. It'll be interesting to see what LH does for the rest of the season. Will he play it safe and try and end the season quietly, or just go all out for race wins and spend most of his time hitting new and interesting parts of Massa's Ferrari? Hopefully it'll be the latter as the rest of the season feels a bit of chore and the GP thread will need something to argue about.

As for our latest double champ, he's a young lad with little to find fault with or get annoyed about. Eddie Jordan and the rest might be delirious about him, but I just feel rather 'meh' about his achievements.
 
Everyone wins their championships in different ways. Some win by having an all dominant car, some win by having epic strategy, some win by being outright fighters.

Vettel has won this championship by having raw pace. Raw pace to put it on pole on Saturday, and then raw pace to pull out a lead in the first couple of laps on Sunday.

And if Hamilton does anything other than go on all out attack for the rest of the season, I will be very disappointed.
 
CS||nuTs said:
and yet his fellow drivers think differently

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9611393.stm
Click to expand...

I get the feeling that if Vettel got 19 poles, 19 wins from 19 races, there would still be people in here who would say that he is not particularly great.

Virtually all drivers, past drivers, commentators, F1 analysts, have stated without reservation that Vettel is top class and is the real deal.

Last year, I must admit I was not convinced, but this, the guy has driven like a machine. He makes hardly any mistakes and ALWAYS DELIVERS.

The above qualities are exactly what you want in a No.1 driver. You cannot ask for more.

What is going to be interesting is if he wins a 3rd World title next year...will people still be slating him?
 
Skeeter said:
EDIT: Just realised, he won the GP2 title in his first season, you definitely don't do that by being average.
Click to expand...

Just like his F3 team, He jumped straight into the best GP2 team as well as it happens, and just managed to beat that legendary driver Nelson Piquet :D

I can only guess McLaren funded him getting the best drives to fast track him to F1.
 
I don't think anyone can deny Vettel is a very good driver, but he does still have a question mark over his race pace, of course that's not an issue as long as Newey provides him with a quick car and his stunning single-lap pace puts him on pole where he can walk away with it,

I can see him winning next year (only real rule change is the exhaust, so the RBR will still be the quickest), and probably the year after, and the year after, and the year after, until Newey retires which gives everyone hope but then he wins again :p

I'd much rather see him win a championship where it's been a real dogfight, preferably between Button, Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel, now if he wins that I'll class him as a great driver :p
 
GP2 cars are identical (chassis, engine, tyres) as far as I'm aware. Sorts out the men from the boys as it were. Anyway, just saying.

On a different note: I realise Hamilton has been having a poor season, but I reckon he would have done better at Suzuka if it weren't for the abnormally high tyre wear and puncture (probably the thing that ruined his race the most if his engineers did supposedly mess with his front wing settings and disrupt the balance of his car to compensate for what they thought at the time was Hamilton's issue). I'm sure Hamilton will have a more normal and competitive race this weekend. :) (Assuming tyre wear isn't through the roof again :p).
 
Mr Men said:
Just like his F3 team, He jumped straight into the best GP2 team as well as it happens, and just managed to beat that legendary driver Nelson Piquet :D
Click to expand...

What is Nelson Piquet Jr doing these days?
IMO, he should never have admitted the Singapore incident. His name is now synonymous with crashing in purpose to manipulate the results of a GP.

EDIT: Just checked. He is competing in NASCAR Camping World Truck Series...whatever the hell that is.
 
sunama said:
What is going to be interesting is if he wins a 3rd World title next year...will people still be slating him?
Click to expand...

Depends entirely on how much he has to work or if Red Bull provide him with another monster car where he just needs to cruise around at the front every race because he gets pole position by a second and no one has a hope in hell of getting anywhere near the Red Bull for most of the season.

I don't think anyone doubts he is a very good driver, just many of us don't think he's done anything much to show he's a truly great driver - he's just done what you would expect any good driver to do in an exceptionally fast car. Maybe he is a truly great driver, but I don't think we've seen anything of him to prove it yet, as he hasn't really needed to do so in the car he has.
 
sunama said:
I get the feeling that if Vettel got 19 poles, 19 wins from 19 races, there would still be people in here who would say that he is not particularly great.

Virtually all drivers, past drivers, commentators, F1 analysts, have stated without reservation that Vettel is top class and is the real deal.

Last year, I must admit I was not convinced, but this, the guy has driven like a machine. He makes hardly any mistakes and ALWAYS DELIVERS.

The above qualities are exactly what you want in a No.1 driver. You cannot ask for more.

What is going to be interesting is if he wins a 3rd World title next year...will people still be slating him?
Click to expand...
I feel the same now

Last year i wasn't impressed and thought it was just the car, this year yes he had the car, but he has made so few mistakes and just done everything silky smooth and perfect that i can't help but rate him for it.


Hamilton needs to up his game next year, i find him frustrating to watch now as i know he should be doing so much better.

And Button has impressed me massively this year aswell
 
sunama said:
EDIT: Just checked. He is competing in NASCAR Camping World Truck Series...whatever the hell that is.
Click to expand...

It's pretty good fun to watch, actually :)

He's got four top-five finishes this season (better than Kimi's effort in the one CWTS race he entered, finishing 15th). Currently 11th in the standings.
 
What's astonishing is that Button has upped his game, at the ripe old age of 31. This doesn't happen very often.

IMO, he has steadily improved over the last few years. This year, he has basically upped his speed, while maintaining the error-free driving style.
 
Mr Men said:
Just like his F3 team, He jumped straight into the best GP2 team as well as it happens, and just managed to beat that legendary driver Nelson Piquet :D

I can only guess McLaren funded him getting the best drives to fast track him to F1.
Click to expand...

The cars in Formula Renault, F3 Euro Series and GP2 are all identical. The winner is the best driver.

But if you still wish to pursue the 'best car' argument, I will once again make the point that you don't just luck your way into the best teams or cars, you get there by being good enough for them to want to put you there. Yes, he was helped by McLaren, but he was helped by them because they thought he was good.

sunama said:
EDIT: Just checked. He is competing in NASCAR Camping World Truck Series...whatever the hell that is.
Click to expand...

Oh how that name promises something it fails to deliver. :D

I would love to see a bunch of VW Campers on an oval!
 
Skeeter said:
The cars in Formula Renault, F3 Euro Series and GP2 are all identical. The winner is the best driver.

!
Click to expand...

They still have better teams though...As I said Piquet ran him close which says a lot to most I guess.

My main point is give Lewis the top car as he had in 07 and 08 and he will probably do just fine (unless he presses the wrong button or destroys his tyres), give him some problems in the car and he will fall apart, as we seen early in 2009. Even this year he is in the 2nd best car and still behind Alonso never mind being beaten by Jenson.

I already previously said the British media and Lewis himself have hyped him so much that many expect too much, strip away the years he had in the best car and he has not looked all that brilliant in the slightest to me. JV looked brilliant in his opening 2 seasons, then fell away to mediocre and beaten by Jenson...sounds familiar :)
 
Skeeter said:
JB joined Williams as a rookie. Yeah, it was at the start of their downwards slope, but there were still considered a top team then.
Click to expand...
I know he did, but it still wasnt a race wining car similar to the McLaren of 2007

Skeeter said:
DC joined Williams in 1994 as a rookie.
Click to expand...


Given the turmoil of the Senna crash, I cant see the team being top notch at that time (given the Italian Police charges, the fact DC only had 3/4 of a season and had to replace Senna , the unique circumstances cant be ignored imo (and what changes were required by Williams because of the crash, which took away some natural car performance)

Skeeter said:
Jacques Villeneuve joined Williams as a rookie in 1996 and did very well. Williams were definitely a top team then.
Click to expand...


Fair enough - and without doubt they were, but again given his experience elsewhere is he fairly classified as a rookie given his age at teh time and all the races he won in the US (yes I know he was an F1 rookie, but "real" rookies are 20/21/22 who havent any experience at all in premier single seater open wheel racing)

Skeeter said:
Yes, you are right, most rookies do not land great cars in their first year, but of all the ones that have, Hamilton did the best.
Click to expand...


Its still true that most rookies arent given the opportunities LH has been given, so he SHOULD have decent results

I stand by my original comment that even DC and JB didnt have the same investment that LH had prior to F1 (which helps a huge amount to developement and mistakes that would normally happen on track happening in the simulator etc), like majorities of F1 rookes

Skeeter said:
And again, its not luck that these people end up in good teams. Good teams employ drivers because they think they are good drivers.
Click to expand...


No it isnt its huge amounts of money getting them there in the first place

EDIT: Just realised, he won the GP2 title in his first season, you definitely don't do that by being average.

I know this is going to make me look like a massive fanboy, but Lewis' car racing career:

2001: Formula Renault UK Winter series 5th
2002: Formula Renault UK 3rd
2003: Formula Renault UK 1st
2004: Formula Renault Euro Series 5th
2005: Formula Renault Euro Series 1st
2006: GP2 Series 1st
2007: F1 2nd
2008: F1 1st
2009: F1 5th
2010: F1 4th
2011: F1 5th[/QUOTE]

Pretty meaningless imo given that in years to come without looking into each seperate result there is no comparison to other cars /drivers etc

5th place could be 20 points behind the winner, or 3rd place could be 55 points away after all......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom