Japanese Grand Prix 2011, Suzuka Circuit - Race 15/19

Skeeter said:
NathanE - I wasn't aware McLaren were mixing the sides of the garage. Your right a Rocky/Vettel, or Rob/Massa style solid relationship is definitely the best way to do it. If I was a driver I would want my eyes and ears over the rest of the field to be someone I had absolute trust in, not whoever the team randomly decide to assign to me on a given day.
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They made a big fuss about it when Jenson joined. They have a "central island" in the garage and all the engineers work for both drivers. Car setup data is shared, instantly, because they are all working for both drivers.

McLaren need to find a way to bring back the personal touch of each driver having their own engineer but retain the information sharing.

And they need either Rocky or Smedley to be Hamilton's engineer. Or someone who has similar traits as those two engineers.
 
Skeeter said:
Uh? What? :confused:

Im so confused trying to follow your logic. Are you trying to say that the Red Bull is 1 second a lap faster purely because of the blown diffuser? A blown diffuser you then say both McLaren and Red Bull have? What was wrong with Webber's car that meant he didn't pull out 1 second a lap too?

Seriously, I get the feeling you would swear blind that Vettels car was painted green if it allowed you to have some sort of pop at him.
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Sorry I confuse you it's really not rocket science but I guess you act ignorant for a reason. I am sure even a Lewis fan can see why it's easier to pull a gap from pole as opposed to Webber starting from 2nd and 3rd row, but maybe that is too hard for some :)

So now I am having a pop at Vettel? jesus you can't have an opinion round here without you getting upset over it, man up for goodness sake.
 
Mr Men said:
Sorry I confuse you it's really not rocket science but I guess you act ignorant for a reason. I am sure even a Lewis fan can see why it's easier to pull a gap from pole as opposed to Webber starting from 2nd and 3rd row, but maybe that is too hard for some :)
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So... what about Saturdays? When Vettel sets the time that puts him on pole? Whats Webbers excuse then?
 
Skeeter said:
Ok, so Vettel is better than Webber, but only in Qualifying. In the race itself its the blow diffuser alone that gives Vettel an advantage?
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Now you are just making things up that were not said, poor tactic really.

Vettel is better than Webber, on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday and every other day of the week.
 
Mr Men said:
What on earth are you on about? seriously you are like a riddle, who is talking about his title? you just make things up as you go along?
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Hi

1 hour an 8 minutes ago, we were gladly herp derping along discussing Vettel and how he won the championship by being the fastest in outright pace.

Then suddenly, a wild Mr Man appeared, and claimed it was all down to the blown diffuser.

Discussions then proceeded.

Do you remember?

And you just linked me to 2 articles about why the Red Bull is quick. I am well aware of these. However, one Red Bull driver is 1st and the other is 4th. The difference between the 2 must therefore be driver skill, no? Unless your suggesting Vettel's car had something Webber's didn't?
 
I never said his title was down to the diffuser, but it sure helps having the best car, I said the EBD helps him open a gap.

Try and read rather than wading in with what you think I said, it would really help...

Again I already said Vettel is better than Webber so no idea what your last comment is all about, again talking in riddles. I linked them as you seem to be under the impression every team has it working at the same level other than the new teams, as you said.

So from your comment above you will have to say the difference between Jenson and Lewis is also down to driver skill right, which suits my opinion on Lewis also which you seem so keen to be unhappy about :)
 
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Mr Men said:
I guess you never even read what was written.
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Actually, I did. The salient (main) point seemed to be:
... My main point is give Lewis the top car as he had in 07 and 08 and he will probably do just fine (unless he presses the wrong button or destroys his tyres), give him some problems in the car and he will fall apart, as we seen early in 2009. Even this year he is in the 2nd best car and still behind Alonso never mind being beaten by Jenson. ...
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I took this to suggest that you feel that Hamilton (in a McLaren) is not as good / fast / competent a driver as Alonso (in an inferior Ferrari). Was this not what you meant :confused:

I pointed out that Hamilton in his rookie year seemed to be pretty much on a par with the then World Champion (Alonso) in the same car; suggesting that he was then pretty much as good as Alonso.

As it happens, for whatever reason, Hamilton seems to have gone off the boil of late . . . perhaps he isn't as comfortable with the Pirellis, perhaps he has got a tad complacent, who knows :confused:

Judging by your bickering with Skeeter, you don't seem to have an entirely clear idea as to what you mean at all.
 
I made no mention of Alonso, when the car is good then so can Lewis be good, was my point, when the car is not to his liking he falls apart as we see this year and early 2009. It's a good test when the car is not so good to see how a driver reacts, and so far for me Lewis does not react well to not being on top.
 
Mr Men said:
So from your comment above you will have to say the difference between Jenson and Lewis is also down to driver skill right, which suits my opinion on Lewis also which you seem so keen to be unhappy about :)
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Hamilton has more skill than Button, but skill alone is useless. You must combine the skill with all the other factors (car, team, mentality, ability to look in your mirrors, etc) to create your overall performance. Button has done this far more successfully than Hamilton. The (small) deficit in skill Button has has been massively outweighed by the other factors of his performance.

The same applies to Vettel and Alonso, but in their cases the raw skill difference over their team mate is far greater, and the ability for them to cover it up through other factors (mistakes) is far less.

Neither Webber or Massa have really done anything wrong this year, they have simply been beaten by their team mates due to the difference in skill. Lewis has been beaten because of a combination of mistakes, bad luck, and harsh decisions, not because Button is simply faster than him. Lewis knows this.
 
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Mr Men said:
So from your comment above you will have to say the difference between Jenson and Lewis is also down to driver skill right, which suits my opinion on Lewis also which you seem so keen to be unhappy about :)
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This year Button has definitely been the better driver, ie. better skill.
Most of Hamilton's problems have been of his own making.

Button has definitely raised his game this year. He claims that this is the best he has ever driven. I would agree.

And Hamilton is now buckling under the pressure. I must admit, I never thought I would see Hamilton buckle like this...especially after doing so well against Alonso in 2007.
 
Skeeter said:
Hamilton has more skill than Button, but skill alone is useless. You must combine the skill with all the other factors (car, team, mentality, ability to look in your mirrors, etc) to create your overall performance. Button has done this far more successfully than Hamilton. The (small) deficit in skill Button has has been massively outweighed by the other factors of his performance.

The same applies to Vettel and Alonso, but in their cases the raw skill difference over their team mate is far greater, and the ability for them to cover it up through other factors (mistakes) is far less.

Neither Webber or Massa have really done anything wrong this year, they have simply been beaten by their team mates due to the difference in skill. Lewis has been beaten because of a combination of mistakes, bad luck, and harsh decisions, not because Button is simply faster than him.
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Fair enough, I would totally disagree that Jenson has less skill but you will defend Lewis all day long with excuses so what's the point really :)
 
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