Japanese Grand Prix 2012, Suzuka - Race 15/20

el_dazza said:
In fact, that's been up for a few days now, he can have 16/1 for making me wait. Offer stands until 10pm Thursday night.
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Awww. That's so tempting.
I'll put £3 on that for a £40 return.
I'll probably lose as I don't believe that Hamilton can win the title (though it is still possible) and those odds are great.

Are you sure you wouldnt mind taking my money? Just £3?
 
drunkenmaster said:
snip
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Couple of things.

Your talking about measing the wings height above the road. This is not how wing movement is measured. Wing movement and positioning (and positioning of pretty much everything on an F1 car) is taken from the reference plane, not the ground. Measuring from the ground is no good.

And testing parts from previous races against new rules not only means retrospectively applying rules that didn't exist (which is just stupid, let alone unfair), but also assume the FIA would know what they are likely to change in the future to know which parts to keep, unless you suggest that a new car should be built for every race and every car should be locked away in an air tight room as soon as it finishes the race?
 
arknor said:
here we go again...
ask a legitimate question.
get the usual suspects coming in with rubbish and taking a thread off topic whilst trying to shift the blame onto someone else

someome says most of the forum supoort mclare because there a british team....
i ask what makes them more british than any other team based in britain thats also owned by foreign investors for the most part.

which to me seems a perfectly valid question from an unbiased viewpoint.... maybe you guys should realise its not me looking for an argument its you getting offended from a harmless question and deciding to kick off with the usual crap that ruin almost every thread on here.

F1 is serious business...
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Why do they have to be more British than any other team?

I didn't imply anything of the sort. I simply said that as a British team they garner British support which shouldn't be surprising.

Maybe you should realise it's the way you phrase your question(s) that cause the problem and try and articulate yourself a bit better.
 
dannyjo22 said:
They decided to get rid of him before he won the 96 title. The decision was taken in 95 when he utterly failed to win the title in the best car. The when a rookie took him to the wire and at tracks where he had never visited they knew they had made the right call.

Money was an excuse to get rid of him and also for mclaren not to take him. Mclaren offered Hill a small wage and £1m per win but he was outraged that they didn't hold him in high enough regard, so went to arrows for the bottom line figure. Had he signed a 2/3 year deal at Mclaren for 97 and 98 I'm sure he would have ended up better off.
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hindsight is such a beautiful thing isnt it lol

The way RD felt about Mika after the Aus accident in 95, Im not sure your assumption was right - I think McLaren would have done anything to give him priority.

While its obviously much less significant than any McLaren championship, Damon getting Jordan's fist win , at Spa no less, is still a good highlight of his career - without thinking about the valiant Arrows race at the Hungoraring and the "50p part" that cost the win:)
 
sunama said:
Awww. That's so tempting.
I'll put £3 on that for a £40 return.
I'll probably lose as I don't believe that Hamilton can win the title (though it is still possible) and those odds are great.

Are you sure you wouldnt mind taking my money? Just £3?
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Alright, you're on. £3 to win £40. If I end up winning, I ask you to donate it to a worthy charity.

I might end up looking like a fool after this, but hey, makes things more interesting.
 
OK. Lets call it a deal.
That's 2 bets I've got.
One with you. One with Frank.
If you win I shall transfer the money to your account and you make the donation.
In fairness, I doubt Hamilton will win...HOWEVER as we saw in 2010, anything is possible and as long as a driver can mathematically win the title going into the last race...you never know.
 
Skeeter said:
Couple of things.

Your talking about measing the wings height above the road. This is not how wing movement is measured. Wing movement and positioning (and positioning of pretty much everything on an F1 car) is taken from the reference plane, not the ground. Measuring from the ground is no good.

And testing parts from previous races against new rules not only means retrospectively applying rules that didn't exist (which is just stupid, let alone unfair), but also assume the FIA would know what they are likely to change in the future to know which parts to keep, unless you suggest that a new car should be built for every race and every car should be locked away in an air tight room as soon as it finishes the race?
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The RULE hasn't changed, it hasn't changed in the slightest the test to catch people breaking the rule has changed, which is completely different.

IE one race the rule is you can have 40mm flex, the next its 20mm, applying the 20mm rule to the previous races 40mm rule is nuts.

The rule WAS 20mm for the first race, the last race and this race. If a wing breaks the 20mm in every race up to the new race, where the TEST becomes more accurate, but the rule is the same, and the teams put on a different wing that doesn't break it but the old wing would fail. Testing the old wing would merely prove they WERE breaking the existing rule previously.

Passing a test does NOT make something legal, it merely means they can't prove its illegal. Same way being found not guilty of a murder is only stating there isn't enough proof to find you guilty, you can absolutely do something illegal and get away with it.


Its simple the rule is 20mm of flex, this rule hasn't changed, creating a wing that won't bend more than 20mm under the specific test, but absolutely bends more than 20mm in real use, when the rule stats it can't bend more than 20mm is breaking the rule, just not getting caught.

Ultimately for less cheating, we need better rules. The rule should be, it must pass testing so it doesn't bend more than 20mm, but it CAN bend more than this in the race. The 20mm rule is to help reduce the amount teams do it basically. With no rule they'd make crazy bendy wings, if they say it can't bend more than 20mm even the best wing they can design will almost certainly bend less than one that also has to pass the test. If they really intend for the wing to bend no more than 20mm, make the test 10mm or something, so while they will try and design it to bend further in real use, the limits of the test make it more likely the wing will bend less.

Basically they make too many rules with poor tests and should account for that more.

As long as the rule is CLEAR that it must pass but it can bend more in use, then a team with a 130mil budget can try and create a bendable wing, while the rule is that is SHOULDN'T bend more in real use, a team with a small budget can't risk developing such a wing, because if its deemed illegal because the tests change, they've lost that money. This is where Ferrari/Mclaren/RBR's huge budgets come into play, investing in the little things that all add up to make the car better, but they don't sacrifice elsewhere.

Basically we've got a grid with the richest teams making parts that do break the rules but pass the testing and other teams that can't afford to even consider trying it. A more realistic rule is fairer for everyone.
 
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Just got up..P2 has started :)

Oh nooo Di Resta smashed his car already :(

Kimi just got a message saying his car is unsafe because of his kers...pitted.
No one is touching the car yet..
 
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Shimmy said:
Why I have I got up this early when I've got a big night out planned?

:p
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Your late :mad::D where you off to tonight then?

MSC in to the tires same place as De Rista.red flag..all running again

Petrovs rear wing came off at the first corner....lucky lad...that's it all done bacon buttie time :)
 
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deuse said:
Your late :mad::D where you off to tonight then?

MSC in to the tires same place as De Rista.red flag..all running again

Petrovs rear wing came off at the first corner....lucky lad...that's it all done bacon buttie time :)
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Nah I was watching since 5.55am lol, pre drinks here and then out in Watford I believe.

Not been before, heard mixed reports.
 
BBC reporting that both Ferrari and RBR have suffered from tyre blistering but no reports on McLaren.

Also saying that Hamilton is running more downforce than Button because JB will need the extra top speed to make up his five place grid penalty.

I hope it's not Spa all over again.
 
FP1 Times

Code: 
[b]Pos  Driver                Team                  Time               Laps[/b]
 1.  Jenson Button         McLaren-Mercedes      1m34.507s            20
 2.  Lewis Hamilton        McLaren-Mercedes      1m34.740s  + 0.233   26
 3.  Mark Webber           Red Bull-Renault      1m34.856s  + 0.349   24
 4.  Nico Rosberg          Mercedes              1m35.059s  + 0.552   18
 5.  Michael Schumacher    Mercedes              1m35.112s  + 0.615   20
 6.  Kamui Kobayashi       Sauber-Ferrari        1m35.199s  + 0.692   27
 7.  Felipe Massa          Ferrari               1m35.283s  + 0.776   24
 8.  Paul di Resta         Force India-Mercedes  1m35.299s  + 0.792   18
 9.  Nico Hulkenberg       Force India-Mercedes  1m35.474s  + 0.967   22
10.  Pastor Maldonado      Williams-Renault      1m35.478s  + 0.971   24
11.  Fernando Alonso       Ferrari               1m35.484s  + 0.977   26
12.  Sergio Perez          Sauber-Ferrari        1m35.584s  + 1.077   24
13.  Kimi Raikkonen        Lotus-Renault         1m35.691s  + 1.184   22
14.  Romain Grosjean       Lotus-Renault         1m35.724s  + 1.217   21
15.  Daniel Ricciardo      Toro Rosso-Ferrari    1m36.123s  + 1.616   19
16.  Jean-Eric Vergne      Toro Rosso-Ferrari    1m36.222s  + 1.715   25
17.  Sebastian Vettel      Red Bull-Renault      1m36.366s  + 1.859   23
18.  Valterri Bottas       Williams-Renault      1m36.389s  + 1.882   24
19.  Timo Glock            Marussia-Cosworth     1m37.716s  + 3.209   17 
20.  Vitaly Petrov         Caterham-Renault      1m38.295s  + 3.788   23
21.  Charles Pic           Marussia-Cosworth     1m38.616s  + 4.109   25
22.  Narain Karthikeyan    HRT-Cosworth          1m39.043s  + 4.536   25
23.  Giedo van der Garde   Caterham-Renault      1m39.374s  + 4.867   22
24.  Pedro de la Rosa      HRT-Cosworth          1m39.688s  + 5.181   19

Report - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103072


FP2 Times

Code: 
[b]Pos  Driver                Team                  Time               Laps[/b]
 1.  Mark Webber           Red Bull-Renault      1m32.493             34
 2.  Lewis Hamilton        McLaren-Mercedes      1m32.707s  + 0.214   32
 3.  Sebastian Vettel      Red Bull-Renault      1m32.836s  + 0.343   37
 4.  Nico Hulkenberg       Force India-Mercedes  1m32.987s  + 0.494   30
 5.  Fernando Alonso       Ferrari               1m33.093s  + 0.600   28
 6.  Romain Grosjean       Lotus-Renault         1m33.107s  + 0.614   35
 7.  Jenson Button         McLaren-Mercedes      1m33.349s  + 0.856   22
 8.  Bruno Senna           Williams-Renault      1m33.499s  + 1.006   35
 9.  Felipe Massa          Ferrari               1m33.614s  + 1.121   32
10.  Michael Schumacher    Mercedes              1m33.750s  + 1.257   13
11.  Nico Rosberg          Mercedes              1m33.866s  + 1.373   19
12.  Sergio Perez          Sauber-Ferrari        1m33.903s  + 1.410   36
13.  Kamui Kobayashi       Sauber-Ferrari        1m33.9$3s  + 1.490   33
14.  Kimi Raikkonen        Lotus-Renault         1m34.291s  + 1.798   12
15.  Pastor Maldonado      Williams-Renault      1m34.300s  + 1.807   33
16.  Daniel Ricciardo      Toro Rosso-Ferrari    1m34.863s  + 2.370   32
17.  Jean-Eric Vergne      Toro Rosso-Ferrari    1m35.080s  + 2.587   34
18.  Heikki Kovalainen     Caterham-Renault      1m35.711s  + 3.218   41
19.  Vitaly Petrov         Caterham-Renault      1m35.870s  + 3.377   37
20.  Timo Glock            Marussia-Cosworth     1m36.194s  + 3.701   32
21.  Charles Pic           Marussia-Cosworth     1m36.636s  + 4.143   28
22.  Pedro de la Rosa      HRT-Cosworth          1m37.342s  + 4.849   30
23.  Narain Karthikeyan    HRT-Cosworth          1m37.701s  + 5.208   35
24.  Paul di Resta         Force India-Mercedes  No time               2

Report - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103075


Replay of the sessions are on from 11am this morning on Sky Sports F1 channel.
 
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Panzerbjorn said:
BBC reporting that both Ferrari and RBR have suffered from tyre blistering but no reports on McLaren.

Also saying that Hamilton is running more downforce than Button because JB will need the extra top speed to make up his five place grid penalty.

I hope it's not Spa all over again.
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I hope so to. Lewis needs to win here to stand a chance of a WDC
Massas tires was a mess blistering like hell..but he did go off a few times so..
 
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