On paper, maybe. But for anyone who watched the season we would know that Vettel won because McLaren and Alonso threw it away, rather than Vettel being the best.
Japanese Grand Prix 2012, Suzuka - Race 15/20
- Thread starter Duke
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On paper, maybe. But for anyone who watched the season we would know that Vettel won because McLaren and Alonso threw it away, rather than Vettel being the best.
Soldato
Tbh in 2010 RBR had the far better car and did their best to throw it away. They came good at the absolute last opportunity, same might happen again.
Who do you mean? McLaren?
Soldato
This year? Yep.
Cool. Thought you mean RBR for this year and was a bit like
.McLaren could do it, but I don't think they will.
It's a bigger ask for Lewis to do it in 2012 than it was for Seb in 2010 with six races to go though.
Wasn't Seb the same number of points behind the leader in 2010 as he is now?
Whereas Hamilton is over 50 points behind at the moment.
If the McLaren remains as dominant as it has been recently for the rest of the season and they don't have any more technical issues and Lewis drives his socks off and JB takes big points out of Fred, Seb and Kimi, THEN McLaren might be in with a shot at both WDC and WCC.
Unfortunately the chances of all of those things happening are quite slim.
Mclaren should get the constructors championship as both are scoring decent points. Webber seems to have been a bit off recently and Massa is just.. Massa. Lotus said this week they are aiming to jump Ferrari to 3rd place.
Soldato
What's the ponit in following a team or driver if you think they are going to lose each race?
no F1 driver ever thinks he will lose or he would not be there trying to win
I've been saying since 1963 that villa will win the fa cup again...but they never do
In a nut shell it's called being a loyal supporter
back on topic please.
In a nut shell it's called being a loyal supporter
back on topic please.
Agreed!
It is odd that some people are surprised that this forum has a majority of Hamilton/Button/McLaren fans considering they are British drivers, a British team and most of us are British...
There are plenty of conflicting opinions in the Football Stadium every week but it's no surprise when people support different teams, why is F1 any different?
Associate
Some people probably thought that Hamilton couldn't possibly lose the championship in 2007 going into the penultimate race when he had that 17-point lead over Raikkonen and a 12-point lead of Alonso, but we all know how that turned out.
Lewis just needs to race hard and have some goddamn luck for once in his career.
Soldato
Why does being British mean you have to support British drivers or teams?
Most of the teams are (foreign owned and) based in Britain and most of the drivers live abroad.
Man of Honour
There's nothing wrong with being loyal and realistic at the same time. Maybe that's why I've never fully been able to embrace football - I can't display that blind faith/belief that most fans have that their team is going to win every time out.What's the ponit in following a team or driver if you think they are going to lose each race?
no F1 driver ever thinks he will lose or he would not be there trying to win
I've been saying since 1963 that villa will win the fa cup again...but they never do
In a nut shell it's called being a loyal supporter
back on topic please.
I think the key words in his post were 'majority' and 'most'.
Therese no obligation to support British teams or drivers, but being a British forum its obviously going to have a higher level of support for the British contingent.
The national support is actually quite tame in Britain. I can't imagine there are many Italian F1 fans who don't support Ferrari, or Spanish fans who don't support Alonso, for example.
I've never heard the TV coverage describe McLaren as a 'national team', whereas you hear it all the time about Ferrari and to some extent Mercedes.
flexiwing, etc etc etc
(Im not saying its particularly accurate or fair but its certainly a potential basis for a discussion)
Do you seriously think other teams are not getting away with bending the rules? If HRT were running something similar do you honestly think Ferrari and McLaren would be protesting when they are at the bottom. Its all a game, we all do it and to some extent all get caught out. 75% of it isnt even general knowledge but, it does happen within most of the front runners.
We pushed it to the limits and did get caught out mainly because we were leading the championship.
Next year it all gets reset and we all try to get away with murder again, its what we are paid to do.
Caporegime
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It sounds like Mclaren were matching beating Merc in basic wage. But its expected by almost everyone that wage + sponsorship will be a significantly bigger package with Merc. Thing is quotes are about Mclaren offering to make him the BEST paid driver on the grid, full stop. Considering Alonso is said to be on 24-25mil a year, that would make it a 3 year offer of 75mil or so, plus another 10-20mil in sponsorship. The early numbers of the Merc offer was around 15mil a year with up to 60mil over the three years depending on performance, so around 20mil.
I got the impression the Mclaren offer would be similar, 15 mil or so a year just even bigger bonuses for titles than Merc were offering. Thing is he won't win three titles in a row, full stop so full performance bonus just ain't going to happen at either team. The 40-50mil he can make in Sponsorship at Merc dwarfs the what 5-15mil he could get at Mclaren, and that is where the difference is.
I don't believe he moved for money though, I've said this in the football thread, I think a player moving to Man Utd would be moving to a team that has won the prem league umpteen times, you go there, are the best in the world win titles.... its just another title in a long list. However you go to City and build a team, win a title, the FIRST title, its remembered forever, its the one that goes down in history, its the one everyone remembers, not the 10 after that.
Schumi went to a team that hadn't been successful for ages and won a title, going to the current best team and winning is just such a smaller challenge. He went to Mclaren(in F1) won the title for them for the first time in ages. At this stage winning a title with Merc, even if its less titles or takes longer, is a bigger achievement than winning another one at Mclaren. Getting second at Merc would be a bigger achievement than 2nd at Mclaren, etc, etc, etc.
Mostly because he had the best car in both those years and people seem to blindly forget this season, they've had the best car at many points throughout this season also. Red bull has won 4 races, Mclaren 5, Ferrari 3, the Ferrari win at Valencia followed Vettel with a massive lead and cruising around with a huge advantage and hugely faster than everyone else dropping out. RBR was by far the best car that weekend, Ferrari were a distant second but still got the win.
RBR still have a commanding lead in the constructors... they don't have a bad car this year.
Ferrari, Mclaren, RBR haven't had a bad car this year, they've had 1-2 particularly bad races but have alternated who is fastest, second and third fastest all season long really. Mclaren edge it now but 5 races from now it could be RBR, Ferrari, even Lotus(not very likely).
Of course every team pushes the rules - thats how they try to stay ahead.
All I was suggesting is that there is a basis for discussion nothing else
Next year? Dont you mean the year after next? (I suppose you being on the design side, next year you will of course be working on the 2014 car, but majority of things up for debate wont be "discovered" until the car is actually raced)
I wouldnt say 36 points is a "commanding" lead in the constructors - that can be overhauled in one race (admittedly requiring a dnf & a bad finish/2nd dnf) , fine with one race to go that term would be fair but 6 races, not at all. Like McLaren your reliability hasnt been great this season (which does liven up the races, but can be agonizing for the team Im sure even when the cars DO finish). The car isnt bad at all, although some tracks have highlighted weaknesses (especially quali, where the team lost their complete domination from the last two seasons).
Ferrari's reliability has been amazing, I detest the team (nearly as much as SV and That finger) and dont particularly like FA either, but due respect to how he has managed to keep his nose clean even when the car hasnt been at its best and making up lots of points from everyone else's failures. It would actually be interesting to know how many points he has won from other's failures. It does seem that a lot of races have been lost from the lead this season due to unreliability - more so than the last few years at least.
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Soldato
To me if you go with the realistic option then it would be..well maybe he can win..hmm maybe not..depends ect BORING
I thought the FIA guy caught RB adjusting the ride height in parc ferme at Canada?
Caporegime
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- 33,188
As far as I can tell, Vettel has had one retirement, Webber none, massa one, Alonso one, Hamilton 3 and Button 1.
Alonso was smacked out for his only retirement, Hamilton in the same incident for one of his. Vettel and Hamilton both went out in retirements as clear favourites to win.
None of that is particularly telling, overall Ferrari and RBR reliability has been immense, one real retirement each(though I can't remember if Massa's was car failure or crash). Mclaren's is clearly worse but not awful. Ferrari's/Alonso's awesomeness is no non points finishes except the DNF, and only two finishes below 5th. Hamilton only has 1 non points finish excluding the DNF's, and IIRC he got a puncture that ruined his race then, something else also? Button, Webber and lol Massa have all had plenty of none points finishes.
The key difference with Hamilton and Alonso, outside of the two failures and at the time in the race, is more lower points finishes, but a decent number of those were down to poor pitstops/tactics.
I don't think Ferrari's reliability has been better than RBR, I think they have a significantly better driver, coupled with a more well rounded car. It's no speed demon in quali but in race there has only been one or two tracks its been clearly not in the top 4 teams on track.
Alonso was smacked out for his only retirement, Hamilton in the same incident for one of his. Vettel and Hamilton both went out in retirements as clear favourites to win.
None of that is particularly telling, overall Ferrari and RBR reliability has been immense, one real retirement each(though I can't remember if Massa's was car failure or crash). Mclaren's is clearly worse but not awful. Ferrari's/Alonso's awesomeness is no non points finishes except the DNF, and only two finishes below 5th. Hamilton only has 1 non points finish excluding the DNF's, and IIRC he got a puncture that ruined his race then, something else also? Button, Webber and lol Massa have all had plenty of none points finishes.
The key difference with Hamilton and Alonso, outside of the two failures and at the time in the race, is more lower points finishes, but a decent number of those were down to poor pitstops/tactics.
I don't think Ferrari's reliability has been better than RBR, I think they have a significantly better driver, coupled with a more well rounded car. It's no speed demon in quali but in race there has only been one or two tracks its been clearly not in the top 4 teams on track.
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Didn't the discover they had the non regulation breaking method of doing it in parc ferme? So it wasn't punishable because the rules say you're not allowed to change the ride hight in a specific manor but doing it by doing something "legal" to the car was technically legit...
Something stupid and typical F1 like that anyway.