Japanese Grand Prix 2012, Suzuka - Race 15/20

well just watched the race

looking at the championship.. you really cant predict it, alonso binned it, vettel owned it, mclaren lost an amazing opportunity in the WCC, massa has shown that alonso lost a good chance for a 2nd/1st (which could have gone along way to crowning him)

i couldnt predict who will win, not many races ago it looked like alonso would win it, mclaren were by far the best car, red bul;l were struggling for top 10 pace - no one knows do they?


as for my team.. grr, im resigning to 4th in the WCC - good chance today lost, lotus/renault always do well at season open, only to fade away, its frustrating.
kimi is a good racer, always pushes fairly close to risky, but in no way dangerous, just hope he doesnt get fed up
RG - hes fast, i think he would be in front of KR if not for all the mistakes, this was dire, worse than the spa incident imo, he just braked to late, i like him, but this needs sorting. They would easily have 3rd in the WCC if not for the mistakes.. if he was slow and dangerous, bin him, but hes fast and that is the frustration!
(im not fussed if kimi wins the WCC i support the team)
 
Cavallino said:
I understand your point but based on the performance of the Ferrari drivers this season, I believe the deficit would've been considerably less had Alonso still been in the race.
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Of course, but I still think the RBRs would have had an Alonso equipped Ferrari covered. It might have been closer, but they (Vettel at least) would have still won. Alonso might have been half a second a lap quicker than Massa, but Vettel easily had that in reserve.
 
Skeeter said:
Of course, but I still think the RBRs would have had an Alonso equipped Ferrari covered. It might have been closer, but they (Vettel at least) would have still won. Alonso might have been half a second a lap quicker than Massa, but Vettel easily had that in reserve.
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The original point stands though - the Ferrari has competitive pace in the dry, it's not like they're struggling to break the top 6 or anything.
 
Kenai said:
The original point stands though - the Ferrari has competitive pace in the dry, it's not like they're struggling to break the top 6 or anything.
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I was typing a response but decided to take another look at whether this response was made. Thanks Kenai :) This is exactly what I am trying to say. Ferrari have pace. And its not fair to allude to the season being wrapped up (based on dj22's comment) simply because Vettel finished by some margin.
 
smr said:
Mclaren seem to have lost pace, solid drive from Jenson. Lewis did OK for damage limitation. Going to be hard for Fred to beat Seb now. I think we're going to see the 3rd consecutive WDC for him.
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Think Lewis did better than ok. Completely Wrong setup and finished right behind button. (not time wise).

Think it's going to finish :

Vettel
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso
 
smr said:
Does anyone know why there are so many Japanese Lotus fans?

Saw loads of fans sitting in the grandstands wearing Lotus tshirts and caps.
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I noticed this as well, in qualifying yesterday. Couldn't work it out. No Japanese driver, sponsor or engine. The only connection I can think of is that Senna drove for Team Lotus between 1985 and 1987 and the current Lotus Renaults have a similar livery to those cars. Senna was a demi-god to the Japanese. That's all I can think of.
 
Kenai said:
The original point stands though - the Ferrari has competitive pace in the dry, it's not like they're struggling to break the top 6 or anything.
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The original point was if the Ferrari was the fastest car today. It wasn't. 2nd fastest, yes. Alonso may have had Webber covered, but Vettel was always going to win. They did have the leg over McLaren though, which they haven't had all year really. But its not McLaren Alonso needs to worry about beating any more, its Vettel.
 
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Didnt JB have (another) faulty gearbox - a few BBC txts appeared to refer to seperate complaints from him that issues were still apparant?

Also Im not entirely sure if JB was being held back by the Sauber in the first stint, which is why Massa was able to leapfrog him in the pit stops

Its impossible to know (from today's race) whether the Ferrari is faster outright than the McLaren - today just suited the prancing horse
 
Skeeter said:
The original point was if the Ferrari was the fastest car today.
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Was it? I don't recall seeing that along the line of discussion, just whether the Ferrari was competitive. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=22914673&postcount=536

FrankJH said:
today just suited the prancing horse
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Which is the entire point i'm making regarding the whole 'Red Bull have come good and are super fast now' point - some tracks suit some cars better than others and this can change from race to race very easily. It was just a short while ago half this forum was of the opinion the McLaren was the car to beat now.
 
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Kenai said:
Was it? I don't recall seeing that along the line of discussion, just whether the Ferrari was competitive.
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Dannyjo's original comment was that the Ferrari has never been the fastest car in the dry.

Nobody tried to claim it was dog slow.

And i just said its not as simple as pointing at Massa and saying the Ferrari is quickest. Vettel was under zero pressure all race and still won by 20 seconds. The difference between Massa and Alonso is not so large that it could overcome a 20 second deficit and whatever Vettel had in reserve.

Alonso isnt going to have an easy remaining 5 races.
 
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Skeeter said:
Dannyjo's original comment was that the Ferrari has never been the fastest car in the dry.

Nobody tried to claim it was dog slow.
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Yes, he said it has never been the fastest in any dry race and I contested that it is still competitive regardless, as demonstrated by Massa of all people putting it on the podium today.

None of that is a discussion about whether it was fastest today or not, just whether it was competitive :confused:

Given I was the person who contested it, I think I know what point I was making. It wasn't that the Ferrari was fastest today, just in case you were confused at all.

Skeeter said:
saying the Ferrari is quickest.

Alonso isnt going to have an easy remaining 5 races.
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Who said the Ferrari was quickest or that Alonso was going to have it easy? Are you just making things up now or do you actually think someone has said this?
 
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Kenai said:
Which is the entire point i'm making regarding the whole 'Red Bull have come good and are super fast now' point - some tracks suit some cars better than others and this can change from race to race very easily. It was just a short while ago half this forum was of the opinion the McLaren was the car to beat now.
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Its about the circumstances , its not about the track as such

Massa was in free air (before the 1st pitstop), JB was caught up behind the Sauber - and even with a good McLaren stop and coming out in free air he had already lost too much time (now whether JB should have gone onto another soft set rather than the hard is another question)

Someone driving in free air is always going to be faster than someone stuck behind another (even quick) car.

It doesnt prove anything about Ferrari vs McLaren
 
Kenai, what else was I going to assume you meant when you (in your words) contested the claim that Ferrari wasn't the fastest car in the dry?

Contesting usually means you disagree, so its not unfair for me to assume you thought it was the fastest car in the dry. And it was dry today.

Obviously since then its become clear your view is that while the Ferrari is not the outright fastest, its still plenty quick. I'm of the same opinion, so I think we should draw a line under this before we do a Mr Men?
 
Skeeter said:
Kenai, what else was I going to assume you meant when you (in your words) contested the claim that Ferrari wasn't the fastest car in the dry?
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When I contest it by saying 'it has speed still' and 'Alonso has some fight left' that I mean it still has speed and Alonso has a chance. If I meant to say 'No you were wrong, the Ferrari was the fastest car today', then I would have said that.

Skeeter said:
Contesting usually means you disagree, so its not unfair for me to assume you thought it was the fastest car in the dry. And it was dry today.

Obviously since then its become clear your view is that while the Ferrari is not the outright fastest, its still plenty quick. I'm of the same opinion, so I think we should draw a line under this before we do a Mr Men?
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Line drawn then.
 
FrankJH said:
Didnt JB have (another) faulty gearbox - a few BBC txts appeared to refer to seperate complaints from him that issues were still apparant?

Also Im not entirely sure if JB was being held back by the Sauber in the first stint, which is why Massa was able to leapfrog him in the pit stops

Its impossible to know (from today's race) whether the Ferrari is faster outright than the McLaren - today just suited the prancing horse
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MW said it was an overheating sensor causing the seamless shifting to stop working, not the gearbox problem both cars had before
 
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