Japanese Grand Prix 2013, Suzuka - Race 15/19

lunarwolf · 14 Oct 2013 at 15:52

my idea was to have wider strips of turf between track and runoff tarmac, not to completely remove tarmac. I am no expert but was just suggesting this so they wouldn't drive flat out off track like they currently do

maybe a gripy tarmac that degrades tires would be better

Skeeter · 14 Oct 2013 at 16:01

lunarwolf said:
my idea was to have wider strips of turf between track and runoff tarmac, not to completely remove tarmac. I am no expert but was just suggesting this so they wouldn't drive flat out off track like they currently do

maybe a gripy tarmac that degrades tires would be better

Ah ok, so like a 5 or 10m strip that seperates the track from the run off? That could work. I seriously doubt anyone would be able to keep their foot in going across that.

There are some areas (Pouhon at Spa, for example) where there is nothing more than 1 meter of green paint separating the track from the run off so the drivers can freely floor it round no problem.

I wouldn't want to see them putting lumpy kerbs in the way though, thats going to cause airborn mayhem.

lunarwolf · 14 Oct 2013 at 16:24

here is the gripy tarmac I was talking about as an alternative -> the red stuff

from wiki: "The track is known for its distinctive black and blue runoff areas known as the Blue Zone. The runoff surface consists of a mixture of asphalt and tungsten, used instead of gravel traps, as common at other circuits.[3] A second, deeper run-off area is the Red Zone, with a more abrasive surface designed to maximize tyre grip and hence minimize braking distance, although at the cost of intense tyre wear. The final safeguard consists of Tecpro barriers, a modern improvement on tyre barriers"

sunama · 14 Oct 2013 at 16:36

lunarwolf said:
I don't think any team values integrity all they care about is winning.

100% correct.
If you value integrity, then you are in the wrong sport.

Bending and breaking the rules most of the time rewards you with race wins. And sometimes (like McLaren in 2007 and Merc in 2013), you get punished.

Unfortunately for McLaren, because of the severity of their extremely harsh punishment, they have become risk averse - its like watching a huge Rottweiler with no balls/guts, fighting poodles, which have been pumped full of steroids...and losing.

For me, the teams most likely to succeed in 2014 is RBR, Merc and Ferrari. These guys are the ones who are prepared to take risks and have a win at all costs attitude. Winning is the most important objective. And thats the way F1 should be.

smr · 14 Oct 2013 at 17:31

sunama said:
100% correct.
If you value integrity, then you are in the wrong sport.

Bending and breaking the rules most of the time rewards you with race wins. And sometimes (like McLaren in 2007 and Merc in 2013), you get punished.

Unfortunately for McLaren, because of the severity of their extremely harsh punishment, they have become risk averse - its like watching a huge Rottweiler with no balls/guts, fighting poodles, which have been pumped full of steroids...and losing.

For me, the teams most likely to succeed in 2014 is RBR, Merc and Ferrari. These guys are the ones who are prepared to take risks and have a win at all costs attitude. Winning is the most important objective. And thats the way F1 should be.

Yet many people claim that Mclaren had the best car in 2012 and should have won the title, had it not been for reliability problems - and they weren't found to have broken any rules in that year. :confused:

dalin80 · 14 Oct 2013 at 19:52

smr said:
Yet many people claim that Mclaren had the best car in 2012 and should have won the title, had it not been for reliability problems - and they weren't found to have broken any rules in that year.

I don't think it's a much of a claim as a fact, move the points around for when hamilton retired from the lead in several races and he would have walked away with the championship last year.

FrankJH · 14 Oct 2013 at 20:01

dalin80 said:
I don't think it's a much of a claim as a fact, move the points around for when hamilton retired from the lead in several races and he would have walked away with the championship last year.

and so would JB the season before, or the season you are talking about (there was only a few points in it between them in the end)

~Mike~ · 14 Oct 2013 at 20:22

Missed quite a few races while out of the UK. Will catch the highlights of this one on iplayer.

dalin80 · 14 Oct 2013 at 22:02

FrankJH said:
and so would JB the season before, or the season you are talking about (there was only a few points in it between them in the end)

We have covered this before but with reliability issues removed hamilton kerb stomped button last year, would have finished the season in the region of 100 points ahead.

Mr Men · 15 Oct 2013 at 10:07

Oh great it's a Lewis v Jenson debate, every race

Duke · 15 Oct 2013 at 11:56

Slips into most threads for reasons unknown

413x · 15 Oct 2013 at 12:25

I can hear smr on his way to fight buttons corner
Look.. He's wearing the cloak of blind ignorance :-P

JeditOjanen · 15 Oct 2013 at 12:59

smr said:
I can't see Red Bull doing anything illegal, they seem to value integrity too much.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but you shouldn't be talking about integrity when you're so clearly unwilling to share it. Red Bull are more unethical than literally every other team combined with the possible exception of Toro Rosso, who only exist because RBR have no ethics.

Skeeter · 15 Oct 2013 at 13:01

Really? When were RBR found guilty of cheating?

cuke2u · 15 Oct 2013 at 13:38

Mr Men said:
Oh great it's a Lewis v Jenson debate, every race

I guess there isn't much else to keep the children amused. Strange thing is that all of the top teams, RB, Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus would all love to have such a excellent driver as JB in their team. Ferrari because they can't see Alonso and Kimi lasting for more than a year. It might be that JB signs contract that keeps him at McLaren for another three years and see's out his career, it maybe not.

smr · 15 Oct 2013 at 14:23

al4x said:
I can hear smr on his way to fight buttons corner
Look.. He's wearing the cloak of blind ignorance

Yawn zzzzz, broken record.

And where did I even mention Button? I was replying to Sunama who bascially said Mclaren have lost their mojo when it comes to winning, which he was clearly wrong about as even all the Hamilton fan boys will back me up when I say that Mclaren were the fastest team in 2012. Reliability lost them the Championship... so sunama's "risk averse" summary is completely unfounded and frankly, falsified.

smr · 15 Oct 2013 at 14:25

chriscatt said:
I guess there isn't much else to keep the children amused. Strange thing is that all of the top teams, RB, Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus would all love to have such a excellent driver as JB in their team. Ferrari because they can't see Alonso and Kimi lasting for more than a year. It might be that JB signs contract that keeps him at McLaren for another three years and see's out his career, it maybe not.

You must have just read this:

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/1...-the-chance-to-finish-his-career-with-mclaren

Jenson Button will be given the chance to finish his Formula 1 career with McLaren according to reports.

The former World Champion joined the Woking-based team in 2010 and the Daily Mail claim they want to retain the British driver for another three seasons.

Although not officially confirmed, Button's one-year extension for 2014 has already been sealed, but McLaren are also now looking to the longer term.

'The team are already planning for 2015 and are ready to offer Button the chance of up to three more seasons as they strive to build a partnership with Honda which can rekindle the kind of success they enjoyed when Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost were behind the wheel,' the newspaper reported.

Button's connections with Honda can be traced back to 2003 when he drove for the BAR team who were powered by the Japanese marque, before the team were became a fully-fledged works outfit in 2006.

However, according to the Daily Mirror, the 33-year-old may not be around for Honda's return to F1 and is a potential target for Red Bull, Ferrari, Lotus and Mercedes into 2015.

'Sources at Red Bull and Ferrari admit the Brit is on their wanted list, while at the end of next year all the top teams will be in a state of flux over their driver line-up,' the newspaper claims.

Sparky · 15 Oct 2013 at 14:26

JeditOjanen said:
I don't know what you've been smoking, but you shouldn't be talking about integrity when you're so clearly unwilling to share it. Red Bull are more unethical than literally every other team combined with the possible exception of Toro Rosso, who only exist because RBR have no ethics.

Oh this should be interesting.

smr · 15 Oct 2013 at 14:28

JeditOjanen said:
I don't know what you've been smoking, but you shouldn't be talking about integrity when you're so clearly unwilling to share it. Red Bull are more unethical than literally every other team combined with the possible exception of Toro Rosso, who only exist because RBR have no ethics.

I don't know what you've been smoking but it's clearly stronger than anything you think I have been smoking.

Mr Men · 15 Oct 2013 at 14:30

I see a lot of "Red Bull are cheats" comments, people even thinking the FIA and Bernie are helping them for some reason or other. I find it rather disappointing to read especially when it's coming from a Ferrari fan as we had to suffer the same allegations and mistrust when we had our period of domination. Something that some still cling too and accuse us off.

When Ferrari were lording it up my opinion was it was not Ferrari's fault but the rest of the teams who did not challenge them, and I feel the same way now about Red Bull, they are doing a brilliant job and it's up to everyone else to raise their game to match them instead of taking the easy way out and saying they cheat.

A lot of fans seem to think the new rules in 2014 will bring Red Bull back down to earth, I think they are going to be very wrong.