Joe Lycett - Qatar/Beckham debate

fez said:
I just find it all a bit funny how we tell ourselves that our empty gestures are powerful and impactful. I especially like taking the knee for 10s before the game as the commentators spout crap like “sending the strongest kind of message that discrimination of any kind will not be tolerated” as we very much tolerate it in Qatar.
Click to expand...
Taking the knee is literally sending a message against racism, and the very fact that a commentator might interpret that message in a different way from you is the point - to prompt a conversation.
 
Dirk Diggler said:
Taking the knee is literally sending a message against racism, and the very fact that a commentator might interpret that message in a different way from you is the point - to prompt a conversation.
Click to expand...

The commentators say that because they have been told to say that. Its a hollow gesture that they do because it takes a few seconds. Who is it sending a message to? Whos mind is it changing? How is it "the strongest kind of message". As I have said, its the modern performative BS that people lap up because they can pat themselves on the back for being "an ally" whilst not actually having to do anything that takes time or effort.
 
fez said:
The commentators say that because they have been told to say that. Its a hollow gesture that they do because it takes a few seconds. Who is it sending a message to? Whos mind is it changing? How is it "the strongest kind of message". As I have said, its the modern performative BS that people lap up because they can pat themselves on the back for being "an ally" whilst not actually having to do anything that takes time or effort.
Click to expand...
You're taking it all far too literally. The campaign against racism is long and complicated, and things like the knee will come and go as society evolves. There doesn't have to be a premeditated definitive conclusion to be reached - the fact that you're talking about it is success in itself.

The commentators say that because they have been told to say that.
Click to expand...
Firstly, you're assuming that like it's fact - and that's significant because it's making the implied assumption that that would be a bad thing; it wouldn't.

Its a hollow gesture that they do because it takes a few seconds
Click to expand...
Again, this is not fact; it's your interpretation and that's fine. You've been prompted to think about it, which is good.

Who is it sending a message to? Whos mind is it changing? How is it "the strongest kind of message"
Click to expand...
All rhetorical, and any answer is dismissed by default. Not helpful.

As I have said, its the modern performative BS that people lap up because they can pat themselves on the back for being "an ally" whilst not actually having to do anything that takes time or effort.
Click to expand...
Like Rosa Parks, what Kaepernick did took courage. Those who follow will inevitably carry less weight as time goes on. However, the fact that it's travelled across continents and endured for years is testament to its impact.
 
Last edited:
Dirk Diggler said:
The answer to that is literally in the sentence you've quoted.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes: Obviously they're not sufficient reasons for something to have impact. Memes travel globally, for years, yet they aren't considered to be 'impactful' for those reasons. What actual impact did it have?
 
NVP said:
:rolleyes: Obviously they're not sufficient reasons for something to have impact. Memes travel globally, for years, yet they aren't considered to be 'impactful' for those reasons. What actual impact did it have?
Click to expand...
A meme is exactly what I'm claiming it to be. What Rosa Parks did was a meme. If you think a meme isn't impactful then I suggest you read Dr Dawkins book from 1976, because that's where the term was first conceived and I suspect you may be confusing it with pictures of cats.
 
Dirk Diggler said:
A meme is exactly what I'm claiming it to be. What Rosa Parks did was a meme. If you think a meme isn't impactful then I suggest you read Dr Dawkins book from 1976, because that's where the term was first conceived and I suspect you may be confusing it with pictures of cats.
Click to expand...

Thats not an argument. Thats like saying a disagreement changes the world... because its caused wars in the past. Context is everything.

Dirk Diggler said:
The answer to that is literally in the sentence you've quoted.
Click to expand...

No its not. Thats akin to going to a climate change convention where everyone there agrees that climate change is bad and they are doing as much as they can to stop it. They aren't doing anything by talking to each other about it because they are not the people who need to change. For a message to be successful it needs to get to the people who need to hear it. No point preaching to the converted. Anyone who needs converting isn't going to be converted by a few seconds of overpaid footballers taking the knee.
 
Dirk Diggler said:
www.theguardian.com

Germany’s protest will reverberate down the years and generations

Even if Hansi Flick’s side go out in the World Cup group stage after the 2-1 defeat by Japan, some things just matter more
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

That's hilarious...

They did this:

GjbjmZS.png

And the Guardian reporter is acting like it's this:

oxM4DR7.jpg

"Germany’s protest will reverberate down the years and generations", it won't though, it's entirely forgettable, it's basically LARPing at something like that, it gets a bit of publicity but that's about it.

There were real consequences for those two Olympic athletes in terms of death threats, massive negative publicity etc.. when two African American athletes staged a similar protest at the following 1972 Olympics they were banned.

Those protests occurred in spite of the consequences, these same footballers were going to wear rainbow armbands then bottled it when there was a risk of consequences, so they've taken an easier option... virtue signaling. Signaling that you're against racism these days isn't some brave move, it's literally the default mainstream opinion, almost everyone is against racism.
 
dowie said:
There were real consequences for those two Olympic athletes in terms of death threats, massive negative publicity etc.. when two African American athletes staged a similar protest at the following 1972 Olympics they were banned.
Click to expand...

Exactly. One risked their lives, future and those of their families and the other risks nothing and get a pat on the back and told they are doing gods work as they go back to their lives of utter luxury that 99.9% of the world can only dream of.
 
Dirk Diggler said:
A meme is exactly what I'm claiming it to be. What Rosa Parks did was a meme. If you think a meme isn't impactful then I suggest you read Dr Dawkins book from 1976, because that's where the term was first conceived and I suspect you may be confusing it with pictures of cats.
Click to expand...
LOL semantics. You don't appear to have an answer to my question. thE ANsWeR iS iN THe SEnTEnCE you QUotED
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom