Joe Lycett - Qatar/Beckham debate

[ANDREW GREEN]

You literally meet the textbook definition.

racist
/ˈreɪsɪst/
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adjective

1. characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

ethnicity
/ɛθˈnɪsɪti/
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noun

1. the quality or fact of belonging to a population group or subgroup made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent.

I mean I am sure we can argue that qataris belong to a particular ethnic group... which of course you don't like their cultural traits or anyone that agrees with them.

Someone complaining about modern day slavery and those that actively practise it and repressive religious police states doesn't fall into any of those categories. But you seem to be 1 of those race baitors who see any critique of repressive Islamic regimes who practise slavery as 'racism'.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

2) The qatari people are in charge of the regime no?...

No, it's a dictatorship. Democracy doesn't exist in Qatar

 

[jamoor]

You're a UK resident who feels closer to Qatar than you do the country you're living in? Oh well colour me surprised.

I don't live in the UK anymore, hence i can see what a **** show it has become and view it objectively. I even talked about the time I lived in Germany to stop this turning into exactly what you jsut did.

 

[jamoor]

No, it's a dictatorship. Democracy doesn't exist in Qatar

Is the "Dictatorship" there with public consent or are they against it? Don't forget this is a tribal society.

Look at what's going on in Iran right now and compare/contrast.

 

[jamoor]

repressive religious police states

Maybe, just maybe, the Qatari people actually want this, think about it a little deeper than "they don't have democracy = bad and the people of qatar hate it".

I have met some people from the Gulf (UAE and Oman) and I have asked them is democracy something they want. They said its something of no importance to us, direct quote from the gentleman "look at how much of a ****hole the USA is, we don't want that".

He also stressed the importance of stable leadership when it came to interacting with the other countries in the region. They know who's charge of each country and if there is any issue they can try to resolve it as they've known each other for decades.

This is all very hard for us to understand as it's totally opposite to what we are used to.

 

[Roar87]

I don't live in the UK anymore, hence i can see what a **** show it has become and view it objectively. I even talked about the time I lived in Germany to stop this turning into exactly what you jsut did.

Why, because Nurses are only on £36k a year? I reckon that's slightly more than the $275 a month Qatar pays it's migrant workers.

 

[StriderX]

Why, because Nurses are only on £36k a year?

Paybands.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Is the "Dictatorship" there with public consent or are they against it? Don't forget this is a tribal society.

Look at what's going on in Iran right now and compare/contrast.

They don't have a choice. You're confusing lack of public dissidance with public consent, which is nonsense. People could be scared to show any form of public dissidance for all you know.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Maybe, just maybe, the Qatari people actually want this, think about it a little deeper than "they don't have democracy = bad and the people of qatar hate it".

I have met some people from the Gulf (UAE and Oman) and I have asked them is democracy something they want. They said its something of no importance to us, direct quote from the gentleman "look at how much of a ****hole the USA is, we don't want that".

He also stressed the importance of stable leadership when it came to interacting with the other countries in the region. They know who's charge of each country and if there is any issue they can try to resolve it as they've known each other for decades.

This is all very hard for us to understand as it's totally opposite to what we are used to.

I'm pretty sure the Qatari trans and gays who tell stories of being raped in police custidy don't actually 'want this'. I'm also pretty sure the modern day slaves who died in terrible conditions didn't 'want this'.

Do the Qatari women love the lack of freedom. Maybe some do and maybe some don't. The ones that don't certainly don't have a choice do they?

That's the point of a fair society is it not? That everyone has fair rights to live their life without the state or the majority of society abusing them for their life choices.

 

[jamoor]

That's the point of a fair society is it not? That everyone has fair rights to live their life without the state or the majority of society abusing them for their life choices.

Depends if the society is individualist or collectivist. Using your definition then it will very much be an unfair society and that's the way its structured.

To point fingers at Qatari society for being that way isnt' particularly productive, moreso from people that have never visited.

 

[jamoor]

They don't have a choice. You're confusing lack of public dissidance with public consent, which is nonsense. People could be scared to show any form of public dissidance for all you know.

Of course they could, but you don't hear of refugees from these places or protests. Look at how many refugees are running from Iran and the situation there right now.

 

[Ahleckz]

I'm pretty sure the Qatari trans and gays who tell stories of being raped in police custidy don't actually 'want this'. I'm also pretty sure the modern day slaves who died in terrible conditions didn't 'want this'.

Do the Qatari women love the lack of freedom. Maybe some do and maybe some don't. The ones that don't certainly don't have a choice do they?

That's the point of a fair society is it not? That everyone has fair rights to live their life without the state or the majority of society abusing them for their life choices.

quite. I used to live in the UAE. And I loved it. As did my father. We were white male with money. My mother absolutely hated it. Unable to work. Unable to do many things without a male chaperone. Was involved in 2 RTAs, both times she was arrested and held by male police whereas the man was let go. (Once a cement mixer drove into her and another time an Arab man in a land cruiser jumped a red and drove into her).

We left because she had no rights, wasn’t able to do what she wanted and had no equality. And she was a white woman, imagine it’s even worse for a local or Asian ‘worker’.

That being said, I agree with jamoor that this country has rapidly gone downhill and it’s not a beacon of civility it once was regarded as.

 

[StriderX]

Collectivist?

All Qataris must live like this then?

 

[jamoor]

quite. I used to live in the UAE. And I loved it. As did my father. We were white male with money. My mother absolutely hated it. Unable to work. Unable to do many things without a male chaperone. Was involved in 2 RTAs, both times she was arrested and held by male police whereas the man was let go. (Once a cement mixer drove into her and another time an Arab man in a land cruiser jumped a red and drove into her).

We left because she had no rights, wasn’t able to do what she wanted and had no equality. And she was a white woman, imagine it’s even worse for a local or Asian ‘worker’.

That being said, I agree with jamoor that this country has rapidly gone downhill and it’s not a beacon of civility it once was regarded as.

What?
My white british/russian friend lives in the UAE and has done for several years and she has never had any of the problems you mention, what things couldn't she do without a male chaperone? She is single and under 35. (no pics, sorry)

 

[Ahleckz]

What?
My white british/russian friend lives in the UAE and has done for several years and she has never had any of the problems you mention, what things couldn't she do without a male chaperone? She is single and under 35. (no pics, sorry)

She couldn’t work where she wanted, couldn’t study at the university, couldn’t buy booze from the government shops, couldn’t smoke in the smoking areas men could, couldn’t deal with contractors at the house, was scared anytime she had to deal with authority (due to the experiences with police mentioned before) etc. Just her experience but she felt like a very second class citizen. And she’s an original bra burning kind of gal, so it didn’t work!

Things may have moved on in the intervening years, but I imagine it’s pretty bad for people who aren’t white and western nowadays based on her experiences.

 

[Roar87]

Of course they could, but you don't hear of refugees from these places or protests. Look at how many refugees are running from Iran and the situation there right now.

Yeah they aren't protesting in the streets of Pyongyang either lmao

 

[jamoor]

Why, because Nurses are only on £36k a year? I reckon that's slightly more than the $275 a month Qatar pays it's migrant workers.

Are you joking?
Just look around and compare us to our peers. (DE,F,NL,B etc) in economic growth, median wages etc etc. Every single objective measure we have been worse off.

Look at the value of the pound since 2008. There are so many things that have gotten worse and worse in the past 15 years.

 

[jamoor]

Yeah they aren't protesting in the streets of Pyongyang either lmao

Pyongyang is very much a special case, the peoples basic needs arent even met. China is probably a better example, look at what happened there recently.

 

[jamoor]

She couldn’t work where she wanted, couldn’t study at the university, couldn’t buy booze from the government shops, couldn’t smoke in the smoking areas men could, couldn’t deal with contractors at the house, was scared anytime she had to deal with authority (due to the experiences with police mentioned before) etc. Just her experience but she felt like a very second class citizen. And she’s an original bra burning kind of gal, so it didn’t work!

Things may have moved on in the intervening years, but I imagine it’s pretty bad for people who aren’t white and western nowadays based on her experiences.

What year was this? And which emirate were they living in?

 

[Roar87]

Are you joking?
Just look around and compare us to our peers. (DE,F,NL,B etc) in economic growth, median wages etc etc. Every single objective measure we have been worse off.

Look at the value of the pound since 2008. There are so many things that have gotten worse and worse in the past 15 years.

I fail to understand what this has to do with Qatar hosting the World Cup though? I'd still rather live in the UK than some Conservative Islamic clown show rife with corruption, sexism and Nepotism in every part of society. They'll never be in a good state because their foundations are horrible, take away the oil and they'd literally have nothing, something which will be a reality in the coming decades.

Edit: I actually think the people running these countries are smart and are aware of this though and will no doubt try to diversify their economies before then, but the reality is they will never have the levels of wealth they currently have once their oil reserves run out, or the West moves on from fossil fuels.