Jordan Peterson thread

Skunkworks · 25 Jul 2018 at 09:47

"Herp derp he talks guff", said Joey Essex about Einstein.

VincentHanna · 25 Jul 2018 at 09:48

Ayahuasca said:
It's all well and good saying you don't mind him, but many of your posts here don't give off that impression, just baseless criticism. If you take for example his episodes on the JRE podcast with over 10 hours of mainly him speaking, very little of it involves Christianity.

Here's all most posts in this thread in order:

1 - Responding to somebody who claimed that Universities are all teaching one side of things and excluding young people in the "centre"

VincentHanna said:
Have you actually been to any universities? As that is not what is happening.

I can only think you would come to that conclusion by reading biased stories on the internet.

2 - Replying to somebody's post which seemed like it was in the wrong thread (mis-understanding)

VincentHanna said:
Cool, What does Jordan Peterson think of that?

3 - Self explanatory

VincentHanna said:
I quite like Rogan actually. Though I mainly know him from UFC commentary.

4 - Highlighting falsehoods that people had taken as gospel

VincentHanna said:
I said this in another thread/post but it's worth repeating:

I researched a few of the 'facts' he threw out in the Cathy Newman interview.

He said that in "Scandinavia" (that famous socialist country), despite its efforts towards gender equality, there are still "20 men for every woman" in engineering.

I looked up the stats. I found them for Sweden, where it was 2:1. Same in Denmark. Etc etc. I just find the made-up stuff a bit irritating. I'm all for radical thinking and fact-based arguments, but don't make stuff up.

5 - Responding to somebody who had broadened their horizons from only listening to Jordan Peterson

VincentHanna said:
Good for you. I don't have a huge issue with JP, but his followers do get a bit entrenched in their World views.

Not being in an echo chamber and exploring other sources is no bad thing at all.

6 - Claiming he talks a lot about Christianity - Maybe I should have said religion? But he is a Christian.

VincentHanna said:
You must switch off a lot as he always seems to be banging on about Christianity.

Now, do you still stand by your claim that "many of my posts here" are bassless criticism of him?

Ayahuasca · 25 Jul 2018 at 09:50

VincentHanna said:
Now, do you still stand by your claim that "most of my posts here" are bassless criticism of him?

Absolutely, as most of those are just assumptions? or posing questions you don't really need answering.

VincentHanna · 25 Jul 2018 at 09:52

Only 3 of them are about Peterson, and one is debunking some facts he threw out?

So 2 are my opinions.

Ayahuasca · 25 Jul 2018 at 10:00

VincentHanna said:
Only 3 of them are about Peterson, and one is debunking some facts he threw out?

So 2 are my opinions.

Correct, but you still have nothing behind the "as he always seems to be banging on about Christianity". Or was that just an opinion?

VincentHanna · 25 Jul 2018 at 10:03

I guess it is, as I admit I haven't listened to 10 hours of him in a podcast, like you.

Ayahuasca · 25 Jul 2018 at 10:13

VincentHanna said:
I guess it is, as I admit I haven't listened to 10 hours of him in a podcast, like you.

I could be wrong as I'm just basing it off the content I've seen, someone cleverer than I could probably gather some statistics from YouTube and see how many times Christianity, religion or anything associated to it was mentioned, he certainly does get dragged down that rabbit hole in some debates, interviews and podcasts.

Irish_Tom · 25 Jul 2018 at 10:25

Lots of the negative reviews on Amazon/Audible about his 12-rules book that I read state that there is too much Christianity in it.

In his two discussions with Sam Harris, there’s a fair bit of JP using Christianity as the basis for his argument(s) and SH effectively saying “yes, but it’s the same/similar for other religions/secular thinking” and JP disagreeing with him.

That doesn’t necessarily mean he ‘always bangs on about Christianity’, but it’s definitely an important part of his thinking.

Efour · 25 Jul 2018 at 10:44

Well isn't these people's arguments that Christiananity and it's ways/morals are fully responsible for the evolution of modern western society, so it's basically an integral part of a modern capitalist world.

I hate it too. But I recognize it in a historical sense.

Moley · 25 Jul 2018 at 10:46

JP talks about Christianity a lot because most of the points he raises are based on a long term world view - centuries and millenia of human development rather than years and decades. Over the last two thousand years Christianity has been the predominant religous force in the Western world and it's influence has reached into almost every aspect of human society as a result. This makes it both a direct effect on humanities study and a solid point of reference for many of his debate points.

I was raised a Roman Catholic but am now Atheist and much of what he says makes sense and I don't believe he 'bangs on about Christianity' at all - rather when you look at the study he has done over the years on Christianity, Judaism, Nazism, etc and put his conversations into that context it comes across as entirely proportionate.

elmarko · 25 Jul 2018 at 13:32

He does tend to be guilty for attempting to disguise common right-wing ideology as a neutral stance. The way he gets away with this is by being selective of his criticisms.

He is right to argue against those who wish to curtail free speech.
He's also correct on many of the problems of the SJW culture & recreational offence.

The issue is how selective he is, it's easy to attack your political opponents, much harder to look internally. He almost never talks about issues with the political right or religious people. (because that's his own identity)

This is why I prefer the likes of Harris. He's actually on the left (in pretty much all the main themes) but is highly critical of the left & the right. To the length that he will be called a SJW **** for offending trump supports & a Nazi for standing up to extremist ideology.

Peterson tbh only gets criticism from the left so he's lacking in self-reflection.

CosmicClown · 25 Jul 2018 at 13:40

Efour said:
Well isn't these people's arguments that Christiananity and it's ways/morals are fully responsible for the evolution of modern western society, so it's basically an integral part of a modern capitalist world.

I hate it too. But I recognize it in a historical sense.

Yeah exactly.

Its what built the West.

Lets see what happens when Christianity is eradicated and what happens to society......oh wait. Just take a look around.

Irish_Tom · 25 Jul 2018 at 13:49

The point Sam Harris makes is that all of these allegorical ‘meta stories’ that JP uses have equivalents in many other societies and religions.

Yet JP seemingly rejects these other examples as though the biblical version is the only true version.

If he acknowledged Greek or Norse or Hindu or Buddhist allegories with the same importance, maybe he wouldn’t be accused of ‘banging on about Christianity’ so much.

Shocky-FM · 25 Jul 2018 at 15:39

I thought his arguments were good until I heard him talking about religion and then it all made sense, now I don't care what he says.

MikeTheNative · 25 Jul 2018 at 16:06

elmarko said:
He does tend to be guilty for attempting to disguise common right-wing ideology as a neutral stance. The way he gets away with this is by being selective of his criticisms.

He is right to argue against those who wish to curtail free speech.
He's also correct on many of the problems of the SJW culture & recreational offence.

The issue is how selective he is, it's easy to attack your political opponents, much harder to look internally. He almost never talks about issues with the political right or religious people. (because that's his own identity)

This is why I prefer the likes of Harris. He's actually on the left (in pretty much all the main themes) but is highly critical of the left & the right. To the length that he will be called a SJW **** for offending trump supports & a Nazi for standing up to extremist ideology.

Peterson tbh only gets criticism from the left so he's lacking in self-reflection.

It's because he knows his audience and is playing too them.
I do find the comments on Christianity interesting though, however I think people have it the wrong way round. Christianity is not directing culture changes, culture changes are dictating changes to Christianity to make it stay relevant. You just have to look at the mellowing of the catholic church's stance on things the past few years.

Eurofighter · 26 Jul 2018 at 00:03

Skunkworks · 26 Jul 2018 at 17:44

Can't think why people say the left can't meme.

VincentHanna · 26 Jul 2018 at 18:11

Where are you hanging out so much that that "the left can't meme" becomes a regular comment?

Skunkworks · 26 Jul 2018 at 18:16

Reality.

Caracus2k · 26 Jul 2018 at 20:02

insideline said:

Oh dear,

Jordan Peterson is talking about taking personal responsibility for yourself and your actions when he talks about starting with the simple things, like keeping your room tidy.

Your attempt at using a meme couldn't be much of a better, if inadvertent, example of a large part of what Peterson rails against....

A form of collectivism where some adults seemingly think its best to outsource personal responsibility and accountability to a third party authority vs taking personal responsibility for oneself.

Yours is the Cathy Newman school of reason....

"So what your saying is".....

Peterson isn't so much instructing men to clean their rooms as using it as a simple example of the first steps to becoming a responsible, productive adult.

One that doesn't need any external authority figure to keep the simple stuff in line.